New ITC ruling

[[TA]Typher]

Iron hands chapter tactics confers to all IH vehicles. While at face value this doesn't have anything to do with Dark Angels, I would say that it has much to do with the Deathwing. With the death of a pure DW option this offers a solution.

 

With the space marine spearhead formation you get three IH (counts as DA) landraiders that are immune to immobilization (suck it grav spam), shaken and weapon destroyed, you now have a foundation for a pure DW list. Oh.. Did I mention the landraiders get it will no die? With the ITC ruling they do!

 

It has good possibilities for 2k lists.

[Cactus]

Shouldn't that be "ITC house rules"?

[[TA]Typher]

Shouldn't that be "ITC house rules"?

I guess that depends on where u play. In the states the ITC covers most areas. A lot of stores and clubs use it for tournaments. There are some variations, but as a whole it's the closest thing to an FAQ we have.

 

Here is the link.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NkfW26mcJHaqDKlaZyA3PB-prM0k17-DuTifGv2mOG4/pub

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Ugh. Non-official rules and allies crutch. Thanks, but no thanks.

[SnakeChisler]

If they kept it to just the odd thing as in an FAQ type you'd kind of pay attention but its getting more and more like House Rules and some really don't make sense and are getting to be major alterations to some game mechanics based on what a specific group of gamers would like it to be.

 

They need to take a step back and strip out the rule changes they've made

 

My 2 cents anyways

[Hidicul]

Dang, it's almost a brb by itself. Didn't read all of it, but some of that seems like they are just changing things they don't like which shouldn't be done in any format.

[CarbonBased]

It's their tournament format, they can make whatever changes they like. They believe this ruleset is more competitive. The large amounts of tournaments using this format seems to show that they must be doing something correctly (for competitive play). 

 

The 2016 Las Vegas Open already sold out the 40k Championship using these rules.

[DarkAngeal]

They use these rules in my local tournaments (things get scary competitive around here) but as a dedicated and long time dark angels player, there's only one ruling that I don't like: 2+ rerollable saves function at 2+/4+ saves. I made a list right after the new codex dropped to play an entire army with a rerollable 2+ save, but it didn't work out how I thought.

[SnakeChisler]

They should leave well alone

 

Ravenwing gets nerfed but your still able to field Wraiths with Orikin for re-rolls 1's + 4+ reanimation on a T5 2 wound model with move through cover etc.. Who are the same price as Black Knights???

 

That ridiculous ruling with the Blood Thirster is typical it's there as a symbolic cinematic momment in the game swooping over the battlefield, chaos guys wings so they agree to junk the rules and let it start on the ground.

 

The game isn't balanced all their doing is pandering to the elite gamers

[Hidicul]

The one I really don't like is that the re-rollable is better so it seems like they are trying to force the RW to jink if they get shot at

[CarbonBased]

The one I really don't like is that the re-rollable is better so it seems like they are trying to force the RW to jink if they get shot at

 

You can't be forced to jink. If you don't jink, you don't have the reroll save. That was put into the ITC FAQ to finalize the arguement over whether a 3+ or a 4++ was "the best save available." which was being argued ad nauseum.

 

Much like i can't be forced to put my unit into a ruin for a better save, I can't be forced to jink for a better save.

They should leave well alone

 

Ravenwing gets nerfed but your still able to field Wraiths with Orikin for re-rolls 1's + 4+ reanimation on a T5 2 wound model with move through cover etc.. Who are the same price as Black Knights???

 

That ridiculous ruling with the Blood Thirster is typical it's there as a symbolic cinematic momment in the game swooping over the battlefield, chaos guys wings so they agree to junk the rules and let it start on the ground.

 

The game isn't balanced all their doing is pandering to the elite gamers

 

Easy enough, if you don't like the ITC rules, don't play an ITC event.

[IanSturrock]

It's not really possible, with a ruleset as complex as 40K (especially given that it is both poorly playtested, and self-contradictory, too), to run a tournament without heavy FAQing to the point of actual rules tweaks. That's the case even in games that are more intended for competitive play than 40K is. There's no point complaining that those FAQs and rules changes are happening; they need to happen if we are to have tournament play.

If you don't like tournament play, don't play in tournaments.

If you don't like a particular tournament's ruleset... again, don't play.

None of this affects your games with your friends.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

All well and simple, but OP's post don't mention if it's causal or tournament. We also have to think that there are groups that adopt ITC rules for their casual games.

For me, I prefer to keep the rules straight up, with the good, bad and ugly it brings. I have too bad experiences about rule tweaking even if the intentions were good. Sometimes you balance one areas to unbalance others, specially in 40K that has nothing of an airtight rules package.

Going back on topic, to have a pure DW list you have to:

a) use ITC rules.

b) Use count as (which IMHO ruins the spirit of having a pure DW list)

c) Still struggle to fight uphill because pure DW is still not as solid as a mixed DA list.

For me, that's too many points to be considered when I can just play a straight up DA Codex list that is 100% legal and shenanigans free and I can paly it in any situation, all around the world. :D

[[TA]Typher]

All well and simple, but OP's post don't mention if it's causal or tournament. We also have to think that there are groups that adopt ITC rules for their casual games.

For me, I prefer to keep the rules straight up, with the good, bad and ugly it brings. I have too bad experiences about rule tweaking even if the intentions were good. Sometimes you balance one areas to unbalance others, specially in 40K that has nothing of an airtight rules package.

Going back on topic, to have a pure DW list you have to:

a) use ITC rules.

b) Use count as (which IMHO ruins the spirit of having a pure DW list)

c) Still struggle to fight uphill because pure DW is still not as solid as a mixed DA list.

For me, that's too many points to be considered when I can just play a straight up DA Codex list that is 100% legal and shenanigans free and I can paly it in any situation, all around the world. :D

The problem is that (like usual) we need a FAQ shortly after our book came out. For those of us that like playing just Deathwing this book really hurt us. Finding solutions to that should never be a negative thing.

 

I guess it boils down to your play style.

[Polythemus]

They use these rules in my local tournaments (things get scary competitive around here) but as a dedicated and long time dark angels player, there's only one ruling that I don't like: 2+ rerollable saves function at 2+/4+ saves. I made a list right after the new codex dropped to play an entire army with a rerollable 2+ save, but it didn't work out how I thought.

how'd you figure that one? only way to achieve that with dark angels is through allies and psychic powers, rolling for which is not realiable. 

 

as for the original post. deathwing is always been an uphill task i say good luck and thanks for the heads up, Personally if i play Iron hands they need to have the correct paint scheme.

[DarkAngeal]

Well there's a way to do it in our codex, and a way to do it with help.

Black knights+Darkshroud=2+ jink.

But I did a white scars Librarius Conclave + Ravenwing bikers + Darkshroud