b1soul Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I know this would be near the bottom of BL's priorities...but I feel it would make for an epic, tragic tale if told from the perspective of a Thunder Warrior It would also be interesting to see the interactions between the Custodes, early Terran Astartes, and remaining Thunder Warrior veterans. A good starting point might be late Unification Wars, shortly before the introduction of the Astartes...with flashbacks to earlier events. Malcador could be a major character and Valdor might even be something of a villain. In the hands of a capable writer, I think this would be a fascinating story. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Loken Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I agree, I think this would make for a good story. i'm not too familiar with the whole background besides the basics that you get from some of the novels, but I'm curious as to who these Thunder Warriors are! Who would you like to see write this, if you had a choice? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4172816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 James Swallow, Nick Kyme, and C.S. Goto ...in all seriousness, I think only Dan, Chris, and Aaron could do this story justice Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4172828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Loken Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Yet again, I have to agree! Would you mind filling me in a little bit on who the Thunder Warriors were? Also, I would love a novella or novel about the times coming out of the dark ages of technology. Weather that's the Unification Wars or not, I'm not sure, but I think it would have taken place slightly before the Unification wars. I'm curious as to if the authors actually get to choose subjects any more or if they are told what the main subject will be by Black Library and they just have to fill in the rest. For example if ADB is told he needs to write a novel about the Black Legion, he will dl that. Or if there is a subject up for grabs even and authors bid or do something to get the chance to write about that said subject. I never actually thought about it before, but it makes me wonder... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4172856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Would you mind filling me in a little bit on who the Thunder Warriors were? The Thunder Warriors were the precursors to the Legiones Astartes. Powerful as they were - possibly stronger than their successors - they were unstable physically and mentally. They helped the Emperor carve out his empire on Earth, fighting in many theatres including what used to be Turkey before, ahem, being "retired" from service. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4172931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathspectersgt7 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Would love to see this happen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4173204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Would you mind filling me in a little bit on who the Thunder Warriors were? The Thunder Warriors were the precursors to the Legiones Astartes. Powerful as they were - possibly stronger than their successors - they were unstable physically and mentally. They helped the Emperor carve out his empire on Earth, fighting in many theatres including what used to be Turkey before, ahem, being "retired" from service. Aye, the Thunder Regiments were the Emperor's first pet soldier project, the findings of which went into the more stable Astartes. There is also evidence to suggest the faults in the Thunder Regiment gene-line were intentional, their mass demise rather too conveniently coinciding with the phasing in of the Legiones Astartes, who tackled the last obstacles to true Unification and began the Great Crusade. But when the Emperor was but a minor warlord of some long-forgotten corner of Terra, that ball of dirt that birthed humanity, divided by the base conqueror-tyrants of Old Earth, it was the Thunder Warriors who stood alongside Him and took it for Him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4173787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 It is suspected that the early physical degeneration was an intentional design, i.e. if TW are prone to go batsh*t insane...might as well have them shut down and die early Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4173789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Loken Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Where do you guys get your info for the Thunder Warriors? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4174523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 A lot of it is brief snippets here and there. The novel The Outcast Dead has probably the most centralized amount of Thunder Warrior information. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4174533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Loken Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Okay good. I was hoping not to hear Wikipedia or Lexicanum or whatever it is. Thanks for the info btw. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4174550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 A series on the Unification Wars (or at least the last few years of it) would be an interesting subject and could be done justice by a select few Authors. However, seeing how long it's taken to get stuck half way through the HH, it would no doubt be 2050 before anything related to the Unification Wars was released. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4175726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 In the hands of a really good authour(s)...a series covering the Unification Wars from the inception of the Thunder Warriors would be a fine story Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4176292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Absolutely! Id like to see it kept pretty tight though, probably a trilogy but no more than that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4176714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 Yeah...something like this maybe... 1. Age of Thunder (Rise of the TW) 2. New Blood (Introduction of the Astartes, TW still the Emperor's main force, look down upon smaller, weaker but more disciplined and tactically minded Astartes) 3. Twilight of the Gods (events leading up to the Culling) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4177012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I'm going to respectfully disagree. I'm not asking for another thirty-plus volume series by any means, but I've already seen one momentous event reduced to a trilogy (the Macharian Crusade) and I felt it was an underwhelming treatment. The same hold true for the Unification Wars. There's just too stuff involved in that period - which, by the way, lasted centuries - to be condensed in three books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4177099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 I like William King...but he's no ADB, Abnett, or Wraight. I think 3 long novels might be enough for the main storyline (namely, how the TW were replaced by the SM) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4177190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennisBall Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Is there any detail on how the astartes first appeared? MkII crusade armour is the first power armour that completely seals the person from the environment. I recall that the marines at the end of the short story Last Church are wearing this. Would they have been the first astartes or the last of the thunder warriors? Did the astartes ever fight alongside the thunder warriors? If the early terran marines took part in the Unification Wars then at what point did they take part? I thought (based on Outcast Dead) that the thunder warriors won the wars but were basically left to rot on the battlefield - no medical supplies, presumably no ammo resupply or other support to ensure maximum deaths. Does that mean that the early astartes, in their terran legions, stood by while the thunder warriors died or were they too few and busy to notice? It would be an interesting aspect to follow because it could explain the legion culture which ultimately allowed the heresy to occur, this idea that marines are tools and that when their use is at an end, you dispose/replace them. Add to that the possibility that the Wolves took out an entire legion (or two) and you get this pattern emerging of disposable groups. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4177697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 It is suspected that the early physical degeneration was an intentional design, i.e. if TW are prone to go batsh*t insane...might as well have them shut down and die early I'm not sure it was a case of intentional design. The Astartes were engineered to be superhuman, long-lived, and - a lot of people forget this - every bit as cerebral as they were physical. By contrast, the Thunder Warriors appear to have been made with just winning the Unification Wars in mind. The Emperor produced enhanced warriors with physical prowess in mind, period, and the consequences of the enhancements needed for that do not appear to have been a consideration. That is to say, he designed their degeneration about as much as creators of early anabolic steroids "designed" a propensity for hair loss among users. They didn't; they just didn't care enough to ensure there wouldn't be unwanted side effects (or, at any rate, didn't bother mentioning them to their customers). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4177833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Aye, the Thunder Regiments were the Emperor's first pet soldier project, ... Actually, The Outcast Dead implies something else altogether... “The legends say a great warrior with golden eyes arose, the only man whose will was strong enough to resist the influence of the cognoscynths. He rallied the armies of those few kingdoms left and trained a cadre of warriors like no other, stronger, faster and tougher than any of the great bands of old. One by one, they stormed the citadels of the cognoscynths on the backs of great silver flying machines. Not ever the most powerful cognoscynth could dominate the golden-eyed warrior, and every time he slew one of these psyker-devils, the enslaved armies were freed from bondage, and willingly joined the forces of the great warrior. It took another thirty years, but eventually his armies brought down the last cognoscynth, and the people of the world were free again.’‘And what became of the warrior?’ asked Kai.‘No one knows for sure. Some legends say he was killed in the battle with the last cognoscynth, others that he tried to take power himself and was killed by his men.” Excerpt From: Graham McNeill. “The Outcast Dead.” iBooks. The legends also speak of a time when people won't realize that the legend they're referencing is obviously about the god-like Emperor who rules them thanks to yet another cadre of warriors like no other. But whatever! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4177835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Good find. I remember reading it, now that it has been brought back to my attention, and consciously choosing how I was going to take it. Thinking back on my own deliberate interpretation, I still kind of prefer it. This warrior was not the Emperor. Oh, it could have been, and very much fits, but this warrior was just a man. A man who defied the undefiable, and who rallied others to his cause. His exploits were legendary, but the legends were not of his exploits. They have forgotten too much, and the creativity of an age's worth of retellings and reimaginings has had a toll. The legends know nothing of what happened after. His 73 year reign, still troubled and turbulent, has been forgotten. Nobody remembers the period of bloodshed that followed his death, by several degrees worse than the war they do remember, albeit in altered form, as would-be successors and inheritors violently enforce their claims. Nobody remembers that the common man of that vicious time would think to themselves, at least their ancestors had food under the cognoscynths, even if they themselves had forgotten much of their true atrocities. Anyway, that was just the way I decided I would interpret that little bit, rather than go along with the obvious direction. Like I said, it's something that the Emperor would conceivably do. If Old Earth had been conquered by corrupted psyker slave masters, he would appear from out of nowhere, rise against them, destroy them, then simply disappear again. I just liked the idea of it being a case of mistaken identity more. I can also remember expecting to see a lot of Missing Primarch theories come out of that, but I don't think I ever did. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4177847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 I thought it was definigely the Emp...no one else is that powerful...maybe Malcador...maybe another Perpetual? Don't think it was an ordinary man Also...@Phoebus...the physical degeneration/short lifespan is suspected to be deliberate...I personally prefer the idea that the physical/mental degeneration was a necessary cost to achieve the TW's brute power However, I think that if it were deliberate, the likely motivation was to cut short the TW's eventual insanity Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4177948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Yes, it was definitely intentional as an easy way to get rid of the TW's without too much work. Although the TW's were purged in a final stand, which I'm sure was why their now exiled leader was so annoyed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4178113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 We don't know whether it was intentional...no idea why you're claiming "definitely" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4178312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Because in the novel "The Last Church" The Emperor states that whilst his work to unite Terra is done, he cannot do his work in the rest of the Galaxy with the Thunder Warriors and that he has need of greater warriors that he is already planning on creating. So the time-limit or kill switch is quite definitely intentional. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313737-unification-warsgood-material-for-a-novel-series/#findComment-4178514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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