Kol Saresk Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Against a Primarch? "Not dying" is the best any Astartes can ever hope for on that situation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Against a Primarch? "Not dying" is the best any Astartes can ever hope for on that situation. it's b1soul. I believe he is contractually obligated to crap on the Wolves in every subforum of B&C the fact any of them survived a maddened Night Haunter is a damn feat worth remembering. Somebody had to delay that bag of crazy long enough for Vulkan's Kool-aid man impression WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Anytime you can Assist someone in doing a Spot of Kool-Aid man impression is well worth it. Even if you lose an arm or two, maybe an eye, in the process. ....or a few squad mates... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I don't believe the SW exhibit any form of superiority to non-SW marines in that scene. They know no fear...and they don't die in large part because the fight is interrupted. They fight bravely, yes...but I don't think they do anything above and beyond what non-SW marines would have done in the same situation Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 ........ And your point being? Wait, is this about that crap where some of the Space Wolves fans think the Wolves are holier than thou, the way there are fans for every Legion that does that? Because..... wow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 My point is that the SW squad didn't "hold their own" against Curze, a primarch. They flung themselves at Curze (which was brave), got eviscerated...and survived thanks to an interruption Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Other than death, what else were you expecting? EDIT: I'm just confused because it seems like you were expecting them to do better when how they did was probably the best outcome they could hope for. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Other than death, what else were you expecting? EDIT: I'm just confused because it seems like you were expecting them to do better when how they did was probably the best outcome they could hope for. I am confused that my point has been eluding you. My original comment was a response to someone who said the Wolves got eviscerated by Curze but "held their own". When you get eviscerated and survive only because the primarch who could have easily killed you at that point was engaged by another primarch...that's not called "holding your own". I agree that the best an Astartes could do in that situation is escape seath. IIRC, the Wolves did not die because of Vulkan's intervention, not because of how super awesome their fighting skills were. There was nothing exceptional about how the Wolves handled Curze. It's what I would expect when a squad of determined marines take on a primarch. Primarch rag-dolls them, except they don't die because another primarch effectively saves them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Well the way your original post was written, it was like "they fought a primarch and survived. So not worth mentioning." When myself and others are of the opinion "they fought a primarch and survived." Which considering the rarity of that scenario, it speaks volumes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I don't believe the SW exhibit any form of superiority to non-SW marines in that scene. They know no fear...and they don't die in large part because the fight is interrupted. They fight bravely, yes...but I don't think they do anything above and beyond what non-SW marines would have done in the same situation You seem to have it in your head that people think they did well in the scene because they were Space Wolves. I don't think anyone said that, just that they did well in that scene. The fact they are SWs is secondary. They did as well as Astartes are expected to do in that situation, SWs or no. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I would disagree that they somehow did exceptionally well because they survived...they were about to get butchered when Vulkan showed up ...that's not really them doing well...that's just Vulkan showing up, ergo they didn't die. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 Yeah I've noticed the 30k wolf fans are nowhere near as rabid and fan-boyish as their 40k counterparts. Now you wanna talk about an effective attack on a Primarch, look at the Alpha Legion boys who damn near dirt-napped Roboute. Sneaky though it may be, they didn't do half bad for a squad of ten dudes against a Primarch lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I don't think Leman Russ even bothered to send a pack to the Lion - evidence would suggest that since Bobby G's pack got to him in time, I'd assume that unless destroyed in transit, the Lion's pack would join him shortly after. Or it could be that we're SUPER DUPER LOYAL!!!! ;) (Actually, I think it'd be freakin awesome to see the Lions watch pack wind up on Caliban instead @_@ ADB....care to write about that?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 Well in "Raptor" the watch pack leader talks to Sgt. Hef and says that they've been searching for Corax for years, but they just couldn't find him. I'd say the same for the Lion since he's bopping in and out of the warp with the magical alien orb thing for a long ass time and then bopping over to Ultramar in the middle of the Ruinstorm. The wolves knew that Roboute was gonna be posted up in his little Empire, but primarchs like the Khan, the Lion, and Corax are elusive and always on the move. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Yeah, but the UM pack also wound up at Ultramar by accident because they got stuck in the Ruinstorm and then followed the alien beacon. IIRC, they actually thought they were going to Terra. So you get the problems twofold because the watch packs are 1.)heading to the last known location of the Primarch they are going to and 2.)any watch packs heading to the galactic east are having to deal with the Ruinstorm. Which makes everything fun. I also have to question the methods Malcador used to determine who to send watch packs for. Reason being is that the White Scars and the Wolves talked briefly in Scars and there was no mention of a V Legion Watch Pack. So a.)one was never sent out, b.)Russ assumed it never got there, or c.)Russ assumed Khan killed them but was willing to overlook it if the Scars helped him fight the Alpha Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 Yeah, but the UM pack also wound up at Ultramar by accident because they got stuck in the Ruinstorm and then followed the alien beacon. IIRC, they actually thought they were going to Terra. So you get the problems twofold because the watch packs are 1.)heading to the last known location of the Primarch they are going to and 2.)any watch packs heading to the galactic east are having to deal with the Ruinstorm. Which makes everything fun. I also have to question the methods Malcador used to determine who to send watch packs for. Reason being is that the White Scars and the Wolves talked briefly in Scars and there was no mention of a V Legion Watch Pack. So a.)one was never sent out, b.)Russ assumed it never got there, or c.)Russ assumed Khan killed them but was willing to overlook it if the Scars helped him fight the Alpha Legion. Yeah there is a lot of weird circumstances like that. I kinda hope they all get some kind of anecdote, but in reality I feel like Black Library had a good idea that got written into a corner on most accounts. Plus what was the time gap between Istvaan and the burning of Prospero? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Prospero was two years before Istvaan. Right around the same time as when Horus almost died at Davin, so while Prospero was going on, the XVI Legion would be fighting the Auretian Technocracy alongside the XII Legion. EDIT: So the Watch Packs would be sent out anywhere doing that two years but the earliest known arrival would be right around Istvaan V-ish. Not sure when The Watcher takes place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I'd assume the Wolf Pack for the White Scars couldn't get to them because a) the White Scars were cut off for a long time by the Alpha Legion Tenebrae Installation and when they did get out they made for Prospero which was well after the battle the sons had with the Wolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Wouldn't make much sense for the watch pack to be sent to Caliban given that the whereabouts of the Lion were known leading up to heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Well in "Raptor" the watch pack leader talks to Sgt. Hef and says that they've been searching for Corax for years, but they just couldn't find him. I'd say the same for the Lion since he's bopping in and out of the warp with the magical alien orb thing for a long ass time and then bopping over to Ultramar in the middle of the Ruinstorm. The wolves knew that Roboute was gonna be posted up in his little Empire, but primarchs like the Khan, the Lion, and Corax are elusive and always on the move. A Space Wolf who has become a Wolfen can't really be trusted. I think Heff maid the right choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4177893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Interesting. I can't see the Khan or the Lion tolerating the watch packs no matter who ordered them. Would make for interesting reads on both accounts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4178021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Especially as the WS seem to have a distaste for the SW In early fluff, the Khan and Russ had a bromance Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313849-fate-of-the-vlka-fenryka-watch-packs/page/2/#findComment-4178042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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