Tips for Fighting Grey Knights

[Epher]

I've started a campaign at the local GW and my first opponent was Grey Knights.  We had a 1500 point game and brought a battle company with lots of razorbacks, a few drop pods and a Ravenwing Attack Squad with a LS Typhoon.  He brought two dread knights, a storm turkey, two squad of marines (not sure what they are called) and the assassin with the sniper rifle.  Looking at the model count, I thought that I had this in the bag.  Boy was I wrong.  All that I managed to kill was one of the dread knights.  The Storm Raven didn't even come in until turn 3.  It was also 11 to 1 for victory points.  Part of the problem was that I couldn't draw decent objective cards and his warlord kept casting invisibility on his squad of marines.  So here are the questions...

 

Shooting at invisible units, and I still able to use blast weapons like plasma cannons or flamers? 

 

My next game is against him as well.  He said that I could raise the points values but I am very hesitant as it would allow him to bring in more formations but at this point in the campaign heavy points losses would negatively impact how the campaign would go for me.  Besides, I am sure that he sees this as an easy way to get experience points.  I have the option of fielding more ravenwing, deathwing and even an imperial knight.  Any tips on how to turn the tables on this guy?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

[Wrath of Bruinen]

Because invis forces you to snap shoot, you can't use template weapons on the unit.

 

If you can, I'd look into black knights or, even better, a RW command squad. You'll be jinking for a 3+ Re rollable cover save, which means you'll be snap shooting anyway, so invis isn't a big deal.

 

Rapid firing twin linked plasma talons will still put the hurt on GK, even if they are only hitting on 6s.

[Crazy Jay]

Also the best way to deal with the assassin is meltaguns. T4 and no eternal warrior means insta death. For the rest of his army, plasma can't be beat and we get it in spades.

[Epher]

Thanks for the advice on the meltas.  One of the problems with the assassin is that he was in a building and with his combined stealth abilities he had a 2+ cover save.  Any tips on how to deal with that?

[Crazy Jay]

Take an auspex to lower it by 1. If you know your going to be fighting the vindicare again, you could always have Azreal man a fortification weapon and have him take the ignore cover warlord trait. It's a convoluted strategy but it should work.

[Epher]

Take an auspex to lower it by 1. If you know your going to be fighting the vindicare again, you could always have Azreal man a fortification weapon and have him take the ignore cover warlord trait. It's a convoluted strategy but it should work.

 

I like where this is going.  For the points, I think would take a Knight Warden.  12 shots with the Avenger Gatling Cannon with the reduced cover save from the auspex should make quick work of a Vindicare.  Also the 12 shots on a squad of invisible units should make a difference too.  I should get working on those Black Knights too.

[aura_enchanted]

id probably focus on bringing ap2 and ap3 weapons, for dealing with wraithknights im going to recommend deathwing knights as the counter their tough enough to shrug off being hit with a nemesis force sword and can probably crush him in return. the big issue is his shunt ability being able to get around as quickly as he does will be an issue your going to have to figure out for yourself as its really tough to work around. maybe drop grav pods will help? or bikes? im not entirely certain there is an answer beyond giving him no incentive to travel 12" away from where u want him to be

[Hidicul]

Black Knights, land speeder veangence and Aggies line with quad gun to deal with the GK side. If he sticks the assassination in a building have a squad of devs with lascannons blow the building up, good chance they will the assassin when it crumbels.

[SnakeChisler]

Colexus assasin will neuter the psykers Grav will melt his terminators & dreadknight

 

Invisibility is sad and unless you have a specific character it's not guaranteed

[Prot]

Unless he's using Tigurius it's really just luck to get invisibility. As much as I hate list tailoring a celuxes is very potent in this situation.

 

Since you are playing a battle co 2 drop podded gravistator units is a magic bullet on ndk's.

 

I will just say his list was super small I am honestly surprised you simply couldn't saturate him with firepower.

 

As a side note deathwing terminators are actually very difficult for grey knight termies to deal with.

[Hidicul]

If you have the models run a ravenshield with a veangence. Interceptor on that is nice and if he deep strikes a Libby with invis you can put that ap 2 pie plate over him before the psychic phase.

[Epher]

Unless he's using Tigurius it's really just luck to get invisibility. As much as I hate list tailoring a celuxes is very potent in this situation.

 

Since you are playing a battle co 2 drop podded gravistator units is a magic bullet on ndk's.

 

I will just say his list was super small I am honestly surprised you simply couldn't saturate him with firepower.

 

As a side note deathwing terminators are actually very difficult for grey knight termies to deal with.

 

This is my fifth real game and the first time going against Grey Knights.  Part of the problem was poor tactics.  I was trying to take and hold objectives so I could draw more objective cards.  By doing this, I spread my army out over the board and was not able to concentrate fire on his units.  What I should have done was focus Las cannons and bikes on the assassin, plasma devs and assault cannons on the dread knights and all available bolter and plasma guns on the GK marines.  That is much easier to say in hind sight.

 

Unfortunately, I am serious lacking in grav... as in I have none.  I have 3 grav guns and one combi grav.  2 will go to a bike squad and the rest will go to a five man tac squad.  As for speeders... I just have one.  I have the kits to make a silence squadron but they aren't coming together any time soon and looking back, it may not have been the best investment.

 

I really appreciate all the advice that is coming in.  Thanks again, Battle Brothers!

[Prot]

I think you probably learned more just by playing against Grey Knights than anyone is going to be able to tell you for advice. On the surface they are marines, but GK play really different, but saying you have little to no grav is obviously something that is a huge issue for Gk armies which are typically loaded in 2+ saves, and limited models.

 

Unless you are running LibCon (and even then) you will be severely outclassed in the psychic arena, at best hoping to use your own for defensive measures.

 

I think you have the right idea.... that Vindicare is expensive in an expensive list so your model count should be HUGE compared to his. While the Vindicare is 'good' it has great and poor games and this is why I don't use it with my GK very often. Lascannons are a great idea, it simply is one save away from instant death. A pod with simple bolter squads also can just cause it to go poof. Honestly, I've lost my Vindicare to the dumbest stuff so often.... the reality is the assassin can shrug off the nastiest shots in the game or die to the most simple of flashlight wounds.

 

But again it sounds like you know what you would do next time. Let us know how it goes.

[Cypher 102]

The thing about a Vindicare is that it's only going to kill one model per turn.  That's five to seven models total for the game.  Admittedly those models are going to be your heavy and special weapons (if he's smart enough to not be taking shots at your characters).  Weigh that against other targets for threat priority.

 

You cannot target invisible units with blast or template weapons.  You can target nearby units with those types of weapons and with a favorable placement or scatter get some of the invisible models.  Invisibility doesn't help them anymore in this situation.

 

I've played Deathwing a long time and I've lost more models to massed boltgun fire than to lascannons, meltas, etc.  The best way to get past those 2+ saves is to throw a lot of dice at them.

 

I've been playing against Grey Knight a lot lately with two demi-companies, a Ravenwing Attack Squadron, and a Dark Angels Librarius Conclave.  It's been pretty successful.  You've got the numbers and mobility.  Concentrate on the objectives in Maelstrom of War missions and use threat priority to decide which units need to be gotten rid of.  I keep my squads at five models and they typically run only 85 points apiece.  If one gets wiped out it's not a big deal.  There's usually a lot of wasted firepower just to get rid of those five models.  I missed playing power armor horde so much!

[shabbadoo]

Run a Demi-Company...with a Culexus Assassin or two?

[DarkAngeal]

I think you should put your combi-grav on a bike Sergeant over putting it on a marine. That relentless is so much better.

[Epher]

Unfortunately I have no assassins.  But I completely forgot that bikes have the relentless rule.  Thanks for keeping the advice rolling in.  I am feeling much better about the match on Friday.  Looks like I will be working on some bikes tonight! 

[JLEAlloy]

I have a question on bikes and grav guns.  If you move, do you get all three shots at max range?  Also can you fire salvo weapons on overwatch?

 

Thanks

[Hidicul]

Yes to both

[Epher]

So... I played the next match in the campaign tonight.  This was the oddest game I played yet.  I shall elaborate.  It was a team game against the Grey Knights and the Imperial Guard.  Who was my partner?  The Necrons.  Not very fluffy nor did we really follow the rules for allies.  Apart from the 40k rules, the Necrons player is a stand up guy and knows his stuff. 

 

So how did it go?  The GK player wanted 1500 points per player so each team had a total of 3000 points.  I brought a battle company with 7 razorbacks and 1 rhino.  To make a long story short, the GK player spent his time trying to kill the transports.  I ran interference on the dread knights and focused heavy fire on the IG.  My Necron allies focused on the IG too.  SInce there were so many units to shoot and move, we were only able to finish two rounds and with only half an hour for the store to close, there was not enough time to finish a round for each of us so we had to call the game.  We ended up winning 6 victory points to 5.  They seemed pretty sore about the matter since they were sure they would have won if the game kept going.  I have no problems taking the win on this one.

 

So now in the campaign, I am allied with two Necron players.  Not very fluffy but at least we control the space port on the map and I can deep strike my speeders and assault marines and I can use drop pods too (campaign rules). 

 

My next match will be against Orks and he tends to run a lot of bikes.  This will be my first battle against orks and my opponent is more about enjoying the game than being competitive. Not to say that his list wont be competitive but I feel that it is more about who you are playing against than the army or the lis

 

Thoughts on fighting orks on bikes?

[CaptainKael]

Ork bikes give them a 4+ armor, +1 toughness and a +1 to its cover save if it turboboosts. Heavy bolters, heavy flamers and assault cannons would be good to have (besides the additional anti infantry for Boyz mobs). The HB and AC will force them to jink, which they will (they are orks - what is BS 1 vs 2?).

 

Now if he runs Nob bikers, I expect he will also bring a Pain Boy on bike for FNP. To reliably kill them, you will need S10 to double them out and ignore FNP. A vindicator, or better yet a squadron of 3 for the Ignores Cover 10" blast, should make any Ork shake in their boots. Just make sure to screen them behind your Rhinos if he has first turn. Besides Lootas or some artillery, there should be nothing that can touch them first turn (barring obscenely good luck and placement from a few rokkits).

 

Use range to your advantage. He will be trying to assault you as soon as he can, so he may turboboost turn 1 in leu of shooting you. A counterassault unit or two will be needed. As you seem to like Battle Company lists, I suggest keeping your assault marines with jump packs and keeping them behind the Rhinos/Razorbacks. While not great against most things, they work well against most Orks. Keep your Chaplain and Co. Master with them. I also suggest a power maul on the Vet. Sgts.

 

Do not get out of your transports until you are sure that you can kill/neuter the surrounding units during your turn. You are already obj sec, so make him kill the vehicle before getting to your men. Most Ork armies struggle with killing lots of tranports, especially at range (they are after all very anti infantry focused). If you do get out, in most cases rapid fire everything; do not worry about getting the charge. Let the surviving Orks return fire and overwatch them again at full BS (DA in my opinion are better at fighting orks than SM!). If after this anything makes it to you, you still get to swing first in assault.

[SvenONE]

Mace of redemption and stasis grenades work wonders against bike orks. DWK are also good so long as you can make sure they get into combat with the bikes.

[Cypher 102]

A thought for target priority:  if you're about to get assaulted by a unit of 20+ Boys and a unit of Nob Bikers keep in mind that the 20+ Boys can hit just as hard as the Nob Bikers.  However the Boys can be put down a lot easier.  If you have to choose between which of the two units to put a lot of firepower into the Boys are the better choice.