MT Order - Suppression Doctrine Sanctioned Question

[Ubique]

I've yet to read anything written about Suppression Doctrine Sanctioned's unnamed 'special rule' perk. Specifically:

 

'The ordered unit must make a shooting attack. When resolving this shooting attack, all hot-shot laspistols and hot-shot lasguns in the ordered unit can only fire a single shot, but have the Sniper and Pinning special rules. Furthermore, the unit cannot charge in the ensuing Assault phase.

 

If I understand the part in italics correctly, I read it as a quite powerful and unique tool in a MT toolbox. As it doesn't seem to be related to hits/wounds, you could plug a volley into a terminator assault squad at 2 inches and they would stay put.

 

Am I understanding this right?

[morroccomole]

It would seem to me that "the unit" that cannot charge is the firing unit itself. Just as proper sniper weapons are 'heavy' and do not allow charging after shooting.

[jgfield79]

yeah.. i 2nd that... it first refers to "the ordered unit..."  and then refers back to "the unit"... i'd say your scions cannot charge

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Well,if the unit that got shot at fails their pinning check then yeah that unit can't charge. However the unit the order is referring to is the scion unit. 

 

This order is especially useful against MC's. I used it to take down a riptide in one turn of shooting.

[librisrouge]

Sorry, Ubique, but these gentlemen are right. Orders effects that don't specify the shot at unit are referring to the ordered unit since the ordered unit is the target of an order (that got a bit wordy.)

[Ubique]

I thought that too. The only thing that stands out to me is simply that it is extremely superfluous.

 

Only 3 models, the tempestor/tempestor prime/vox, could ever shoot and charge as they are the only ones with pistols. Once any of the scions with HS lasguns shoot, the unit cannot charge as they are rapid fire.

 

Why write that sentence to explain what is de facto already going to happen unless the writers worried that the order would be abused by Sgt Rambo and his HS laspistol waging a solo battle while his squad has a smoke break before charging?

 

I agree with you gents regarding the language (ordered unit, the unit), but don't you think it is sort of ironic that the firing scion squad is more suppressed than the squad coming under fire? It's stuck in place while the 'suppressed' unit will most likely be free to move in the next turn.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I thought that too. The only thing that stands out to me is simply that it is extremely superfluous.

 

Only 3 models, the tempestor/tempestor prime/vox, could ever shoot and charge as they are the only ones with pistols. Once any of the scions with HS lasguns shoot, the unit cannot charge as they are rapid fire.

 

Why write that sentence to explain what is de facto already going to happen unless the writers worried that the order would be abused by Sgt Rambo and his HS laspistol waging a solo battle while his squad has a smoke break before charging?

 

I agree with you gents regarding the language (ordered unit, the unit), but don't you think it is sort of ironic that the firing scion squad is more suppressed than the squad coming under fire? It's stuck in place while the 'suppressed' unit will most likely be free to move in the next turn.

Honestly I think it's a case of the guys writing the orders had no idea what the guys writing the unit stats were doing. In the old days stormtroopers had HSLP,CCW, and HSLG, as base war gear, so they could sacrifice one shot each at 9" to get the charge, and beat face at WS3 with 3 attacks each and 4 on the SGT. for a total of 31 attacks from a 10 man unit. Which is absolutely beastly for a guard unit. 

 

Scions should never have dropped that particular bit of wargear.

[Kontakt]

One other issue. ATSKNF. Marines can be suppressed on your turn, then get back up and charge you on theirs. This feels less like something I'd use on a regular basis.

[Ubique]

Ya, with a pistol and CCW on all troops, that could be something prone to some abuse. Again however, I think they just used some random military sounding words and didn't really relate them to their actual use.

 

Suppression, in reality, is not predicated on casualties. Suppression is achieved by volume of fire or the threat of incapacitation. In the artillery, the effect of suppression has no casualty figure attached to it while neutralization and destruction do. It is only considered effective as long as the suppressing fire continues and its effect is considered over once the fire is lifted.

 

Pinning, to me, seems like it has actually incapacitated some element of the force such that they cannot coordinate, fire or maneuver as they normally would. As an example, the troops on Omaha beach were pinned, not suppressed. Even when individual elements were no longer being fired on, many in the 1st wave stayed in place. Suppression, by definition, does not do that.

 

If I were to create a suppression rule reflective of reality it would look a little like the following:

 

'The ordered unit must make a shooting attack. When resolving this shooting attack, all hot-shot lasguns and hot-shot volley-guns in the ordered unit have one additional shot but the unit fires at BS 1. The unit that is fired on cannot move or charge in the ensuing Assault phase if one or more casualties are sustained.

 

The one necessary casualty is only there to add some risk to the reward. Given that only 2 Scion Command squads can be on the field to give orders, it couldn't be spammed. It would also allow for the realistic solution to small arms suppression to take place; the suppressed unit can shoot back to take back control of the firefight.