Steve86 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Ok a buddy of mine at my local shop gave me a deal 35 terminators one command squad a squad of DWK a termy int-chap with storm bolter and Belial. Belials sword is broken off at the hand so im usingit as an opportunity to do a conversion. I just cant decide between claws and hammer/shield. What loadout is the most useful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 both arent worth it, his best loadout is sword + bolter. without that loadout his warlord trait is worthless, in addition theres virtually nothing you cant get from belial on a company master in artificers armor for about 25+ points cheaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve86 Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 The no scatter deepstrike and free homer seem like their good enough for 25+ points. I got a sword bit that'll work just fine thanks for the info :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Wait...people still take belial? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbaeza94 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Personally I like the th&ss.by Is it the best? Maybe maybe not. But when that necron overlord comes over with his lychguard, i don't feel belial and co is in any danger. However with ap3 I run the risk of being tarpitted. Reanimation protocols are a doozy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve86 Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 Personally I like the th&ss.by Is it the best? Maybe maybe not. But when that necron overlord comes over with his lychguard, i don't feel belial and co is in any danger. However with ap3 I run the risk of being tarpitted. Reanimation protocols are a doozySounds like its situational. I havent seen any Necron players at the nearby game store but ive seen at least 2 Astra Militarum players along with orks, blood angels, dark eldar, Imperial Fists and Ultramarines. @Malakithe: my answer...why not? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbaeza94 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Personally I like the th&ss.by Is it the best? Maybe maybe not. But when that necron overlord comes over with his lychguard, i don't feel belial and co is in any danger. However with ap3 I run the risk of being tarpitted. Reanimation protocols are a doozySounds like its situational. I havent seen any Necron players at the nearby game store but ive seen at least 2 Astra Militarum players along with orks, blood angels, dark eldar, Imperial Fists and Ultramarines. @Malakithe: my answer...why not? it is very situational. hes more of a fun character to me. I normally run an IChaplain/MoR with my Deathwing. the like using him against our 2 local necron players (who are also best friends) while the Lion and the Wolf band together. its fluffy. why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TA]Typher Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 both arent worth it, his best loadout is sword + bolter. without that loadout his warlord trait is worthless, in addition theres virtually nothing you cant get from belial on a company master in artificers armor for about 25+ points cheaper Belial's warlord trait is garbage no matter what now. I'd rather have the 3++ and the ability it insta-kill T4 or deal with 2+ armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve86 Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 @jbaeza94 ive seen the interrogator chaplain build and have a terminator int-chaplain to convert with a mace just need to chop off the storm bolter and find the right mace bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbaeza94 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 @jbaeza94 ive seen the interrogator chaplain build and have a terminator int-chaplain to convert with a mace just need to chop off the storm bolter and find the right mace bit. What I did was use the knight master staff with an angel bit from the da upgrade set. It would be a lot easier to use the mace of absolution. But it's not very unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attias Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 There is an interesting article on Belial and his gear options that you may wish to review on the Dark Fortress site. It's an older article where some of his abilities are from earlier codex books, but the stats on the weapons and how each setup fares vs different types of opponents still may be of interest. Enjoy http://www.thedarkfortress.co.uk/tech_reports/mathhammering-belial.htm#.VgNXJivlzYE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 both arent worth it, his best loadout is sword + bolter. without that loadout his warlord trait is worthless, in addition theres virtually nothing you cant get from belial on a company master in artificers armor for about 25+ points cheaper Belial's warlord trait is garbage no matter what now. I'd rather have the 3++ and the ability it insta-kill T4 or deal with 2+ armor. yes well at least this way its not totally useless i mean it might be a master crafted storm bolter but its a master crafted storm bolter with ignores cover and twin linked off the deepstrike which isnt too shabby it virtually is a guaranteed wound against 4+ armor the thunder hammer builds biggest problem is the following: if hes going to deepstrike why exactly is he not going to be able to shoot at someone? watch this: company master, tda, storm shield, mace of redeption + shrouds o heroes + digital weapon we now have a model virtually identical to belial with 3A base and a reroll on one attack with what is still a very solid ugly club to hit someone with, feel no pain, and he retains his storm bolter so he still gets to shoot unlike belial, its insanely wierd to model but it can be done. all for 180, 20 points cheaper than belial is. so for 20 points more your essentially getting a teleport homer with no scatter ds for him and his squad but he loses feel no pain, the ability to participate in an entire phase of combat and superior hammer in some situations and this is before discussing his warlord trait is now worthless (on belial) unlike the company master who has freedom of choice and a chance to get something worthwhile is better than no chance at all. lets try lightning claws, the picture isnt much prettier for belial: company master + twin claws + artificers + shroud, + digital + bolter thats 175 to belials 200 belial now faces a new set of problems here, yes he cant deepstrike with no scatter and a homer but he loses out on feel no pain, retaining his shooting attack, a 3+ invul over belials 4+ and you still have the dilema of belial not being able to make some kind of functional use out of his warlord trait beyond the off chance your playing with terrain rules, and embark him in a bloody fortification with base gun emplacements!!!! belials most practical loadout is his sword n storm bolter because the company master cant quite match that loadout still, if the monster hunter ever went away and we got say the burning blade from the space marine codex or some other kind of relic sword that ya know wasnt junk id probably see a real strong case for abandoning belial altogeather as a relic of the days when deathwing was something games workshop actually cared about (because stepping on terminators is what gw does to get their rocks off since mechanically they havent evolved in years) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve86 Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 There is an interesting article on Belial and his gear options that you may wish to review on the Dark Fortress site. It's an older article where some of his abilities are from earlier codex books, but the stats on the weapons and how each setup fares vs different types of opponents still may be of interest. Enjoy http://www.thedarkfortress.co.uk/tech_reports/mathhammering-belial.htm#.VgNXJivlzYE Thanks that was pretty straightforward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 My DW is always led by librarian's now in the redemption force. Much cheaper and brings more then belial. I'd I want no scatter I'll just bring a RWAS for 12" no scatter bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 My DW is always led by librarian's now in the redemption force. Much cheaper and brings more then belial. I'd I want no scatter I'll just bring a RWAS for 12" no scatter bubble. indeed, he really is the best choice with a chaplain or company master being your second string, belial is third place but he has other uses such as being in a CAD allied with the redemption force so he can DS in t1 and then follow on turn second you bring in your deathwing however this is a tad tricky to get setup the way you want and basically telegraphs where u plan on parking them so im not exactly certain thats the best choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 If the decision is between claws or TH&SS, then TH&SS win every time. AP2, instant death to T4 characters, 3++ inv save. The only situation claws are better than a TH&SS is if you fight only armies comprised entirely of T3 models. Have fun with your Belial, despite his shortcomings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Belial lost his ability to shift DW to troops (due to the structure of the DWSF detachment) so he is now overcosted... And the special abilities he has work better with the SB+SoS loadout that frankly is subpar compared to TH+SS... 2LCs (and SB+SoS too) suffer that Belial like all other DW termies doesn't have grenades so it's likely that you end anyway at I1 in hth... To solve this you should charge from a LRC/LRR but the nature of DWSF/DWRF is that you Will come from DS and not into a LR and without the ability to shift DWTS to troops you wont take Belial in a CAD probably... So in the end the best loadout For him would be TH+SS with DWK (he can get T5 this way) but with all the limitations he has i think it's better to buy a cheaper CM with TH/SS or MoR/SS if you are gonba take the DWK or a Lib/IntChap in TDA if you are not gonna take the DWK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve86 Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 If the decision is between claws or TH&SS, then TH&SS win every time. AP2, instant death to T4 characters, 3++ inv save. The only situation claws are better than a TH&SS is if you fight only armies comprised entirely of T3 models. Have fun with your Belial, despite his shortcomings. Thanks i will try. Ill see what i can do to tool him up with the hammer and shield. I got the model so might as well put him to some use at least. Hard part is finding the right shoulder pads to match the one that comes with him, trying to keep it close to what he has Thanks for all the input. Ill be sure to get my hands on the cheaper none named characters eventually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 A timeless debate! With the removal of his FOC changing abilities, and among other changes I think he's taken a backseat to the Company Master for numerous reasons. I think the Sword/Bolter is still the best, but only marginally vs the TH/SS. It allows him to take on most 3+ hordes and non 2++ MCs pretty easily to thin their numbers down before they attack back. LC are really just situational. If you stick him with a DWCS with a banner he's going to have 7 attacks on a charge. If you know you're going to be going against hordes like Orks or Tyranids, go for it. Just make sure you aren't charging into terrain. The strangest thing to me is that GW apparently considers a Master Crafted Fleshbane Sword, Twin Lightning Claws, and a TH/SS all to be the same cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve86 Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 Well hes not priced too steep so i might just buy 2 more so i have all 3 set ups ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I used the sword of silence exclusively in the old codex, it was the only sourceof fleshbane...now every knight master has it, and you only need 1-2 per army. Belial is the best TDA melee beatstick we have, if I were running him, I'd go TH/SS, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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