Land Speeder Questions

[aluriel00]

1. Do the three land speeders and land speeder vengeance/darkshroud have to be in the same unit in the Ravenwing Support Squadron?

 

2. Outside of the darkshroud giving it's shrouded benefit to the land speeders in a RWSS, is there any advantage to taking regular Ravenwing land speeders in squadrons since we get so many fast attack slots in a RWSF? Would breaking them into single model units slow down their attrition rate as well as keep all of them having to snap fire if one of them jinks?

[Centurio]

I found that the 2+ rerollable jink, or 4+ cover save is worth keeping them together.  Most armies will have a limited amount of Ignore Cover so they will have to decide if they want to use it on the RWSS or the Black Knights that about to slaughter them.  I was using 5 speeders with assault cannons and a Darkshroud with assault cannon... its really mean.

[HandofAnubis]

Also, the benefits that you get from running the RWSS are very good. Ravenshield that allows you to overwatch for friendly RW units within range, Interceptor, and if you go Darkshroud the jink is a 2+, and friendly RW within 6 inches of the DS cannot be overwatched by your opponent if the unit is within 6in of the DS. You could run a RWSF, RWAS, and a RWSF if you have the models. Deploy the RWSS and the RWAS and hold the RWSF in reserve to deploy or outflank.

[Centurio]

I fought the tyranids, and the ravenshield with 6 assault cannons was amazing to the extent that he feared charging my black knights with his monstrous creatures, and went for objectives instead!

[DeadZone]

"if you go Darkshroud the jink is a 2+"

Only for Black Knights and the Dark Shroud itself. The Dark Shroud gives a +1 to cover within 6" (Stealth).

But with that being said, putting the Dark Shroud in the front of the group near Black Knights would be very strong; Dark Shroud tanking all of the shots against the Land Speeders, while the Speeders punish anyone who would charge the Black Knights.

[shabbadoo]

1. Do the three land speeders and land speeder vengeance/darkshroud have to be in the same unit in the Ravenwing Support Squadron?

2. Outside of the darkshroud giving it's shrouded benefit to the land speeders in a RWSS, is there any advantage to taking regular Ravenwing land speeders in squadrons since we get so many fast attack slots in a RWSF? Would breaking them into single model units slow down their attrition rate as well as keep all of them having to snap fire if one of them jinks?

1. "Support Squadron: All vehicles in this Formation must form a single Vehicle Squadron as described in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules..." - Codex: Dark Angels, page 143

Is that somehow unclear???

2. It depends. "Squadrons" of one Land Speeder give up First Blood more easily, but a bunch of single model "squadrons" are very maneuverable, and the enemy is more likely waste weapons fire from a unit on one Land Speeder instead of being able to spread damage throughout an entire multi-model squadron (potentially destroying more than one model). Play both ways and see which option you prefer, because either option is not right or wrong. I play both ways, for different reasons, but very often go with single model "squadrons" in smaller games due to points constraints.

[Kallistus]

One drawback to a squadron of speeders is that if one jinks they all count as jinking, substantially reducing their fire power.

[Hidicul]

Hope its OK to ask here instead of starting a new thread for speeders. Do speeder squads have their on number like tactical troops and the like or just their vehicle numbers? I'm almost ready to clear coat a couple of speeders but I want to make sure I have all the numbers on them that should be there.

[Centurio]

You don't need to tank hits with the Darkshroud in a support squadron. It gives speeders near it stealth, so the squadron has stealth and shrouding. So it's best to surround the DS with normal speeders. You have a 4+ cover save normally. When I choose to jink, I put prescience on the squadron. This helps a lot (when it can succeed) and you can still do damage, though you will lose ravenshield. The enemy will try to make this squadron jink EVERY turn, because of they don't they will really wreck things. Of course I am using a big squadron with a lot of points invested. If you pressure the enemy with your black knights (I use 2 squads... One a command for FNP), they will have tough target priority choices and only 1-2 turns of shooting to do it.

[Brother dean]

"if you go Darkshroud the jink is a 2+"

Only for Black Knights and the Dark Shroud itself. The Dark Shroud gives a +1 to cover within 6" (Stealth).

But with that being said, putting the Dark Shroud in the front of the group near Black Knights would be very strong; Dark Shroud tanking all of the shots against the Land Speeders, while the Speeders punish anyone who would charge the Black Knights.

Re-read the rules for Shroud... It grants the 2+ shroud to any squadron/unit the shrouded unit joins. Therefore in a Ravenwing Support Squadron the other speeders get +2 to cover

1. "Support Squadron: All vehicles in this Formation must form a single Vehicle Squadron as described in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules..." - Codex: Dark Angels, page 143

Is that somehow unclear???

That! The formation itself says that the speeders MUST be a single squadron with the Dark Shroud.

[Centurio]

It also grants stealth to any model within 6". That will mean that the squadron has stealth as well as shrouded.

[Brother dean]

But that is a bit more fuzzy..  Is it a friendly unit or is it THE SAME unit as the Darkshroud?  I believe you are right RAW but it just feels cheaty and I dont do it.

Besides this is all moot against Tau...

[Centurio]

Stealth is granted to the model. It's legit, not fuzzy at all.

[JLEAlloy]

What are the firing arcs for the typhoon missile launchers on the speeders?

[Hidicul]

45 degree firing arc for hull mounted weapons. Remember this includes a 45 degree upward angle also

[DeadZone]

You don't need to tank hits with the Darkshroud in a support squadron. It gives speeders near it stealth, so the squadron has stealth and shrouding.

All the more reason to not take the Landspeeder Vengeance then.

[aluriel00]

Thank you for your answers and all of the comments. I guess the Ravenwing Support SQADRON does mean they all have to go into one squadron. Silly that I would miss that.

 

I am looking at running a lot of speeders in a RWSF accompanying Raptors with Lias. My idea is that he infiltrates the Black Knights and the speeders then DS on his locator beacon on Turn 2 guaranteed. The RWSS means I have to roll for reserves, but he gives a reroll and at 3+ that seems good odds to be immune to overwatch. I will probably run a bunch of speeders with them for the bees concept as well. I will try to post the list in the next few days.

 

@Hidicul - I don't know the answer to your question. I should think it's your choice and I personally would go with whatever looks best on the models. There is no reason you can't do both with a large squadron number and then smaller vehicle numbers for each squadron on the tail or some such.

[ValourousHeart]

Don't be too hard on yourself about the squadron question.

Just to confuse people, the silence squadron isn't a squadron.

[shabbadoo]

Hehe. No, it is not, despite its name.