Dreadnought Squadrons - Hawt Damn!

[PhilB]

Just wanted to drop a note to thank the guy on here who plays his Dreads in a squadron of 3 with assault cannons and heavy flamers.

I can't for the life of me find the thread where he suggested it or said it was his usual load out for his Dreads in a Lion's Blade but damn man, these guys are brutal!

 

I had previously only ever used them as the Rifleman variant or as the standard multi-melta/heavy flamer drop pod kit but I've played a few games verses my Ork buddy using a squad of 3 with assault cannons and heavy flamers and they've been pretty bloody mean each game so far.

The first game my opponent hummed and harred for about 20mins trying to decide if he should charge them with his mega armoured warboss and mega nob possy that he'd sped right up the middle not realising the Dreads would be hitting at I4. After manning up and getting stuck in there the green skins were utterly mauled by BS 4 overwatching assault cannons and 12 Str 10 AP 2 attacks hitting first.

 

So impressed with their performance in the first game I decided to help them out with a little Divination support in the next, Prescience & Forewarning on your Dreadnought Squadron anyone? Yes please! That'll sort out all those Loota shots stripping them hull points away. The poor guy has a new level of hate for the Emperor's First, and just when he thought re-rolling jink saves and Interromancy were about as bad as it got lol.

[shabbadoo]

I run them as Venerable, with only a heavy flamer upgrade. BS 5 multi-meltas, 4 base attacks at WS 5, great roasting capability, and forcing opponents to re-roill damage results makes for one very threatening/tough unit.  Drop Podding them in is a real headache for opponents.  I have only run two of them, but in tandem with Belial and Deathwing Knights. Belial & friends go around annihilating most things, and the Dreandoughts are there to help them out killing high AV vehicles, or in the event they run into something so tough that a low number of Smash attacks won't deal with it as quickly as I would like.  Previously I had lost more Dreadnoughts to krak grenades glancing them to death than anything else.  Now with 4 Attacks base, Dreadnoughts wreck stuff to such an extent that even larger units with krak grenades have second thoughts about attempting to tarpit them in close combat.

[Gillyfish]

That sounds like a lot of fun to try. I will have to give it a go at some point. Would you take it against anyone except hordes though?

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

my personal technique is to try to get one for each tac squad I run. I pod them in with the tac's and when able/practical place a dread next to each tac. Adds a nice firebase with the assault cannon and HF and then can charge in and clean up for when the tac's get stuck in melee. Love the venerable upgrade as well.

[Master Avoghai]

I run them as Venerable, with only a heavy flamer upgrade. BS 5 multi-meltas, 4 base attacks at WS 5, great roasting capability, and forcing opponents to re-roill damage results makes for one very threatening/tough unit.  Drop Podding them in is a real headache for opponents.  I have only run two of them, but in tandem with Belial and Deathwing Knights. Belial & friends go around annihilating most things, and the Dreandoughts are there to help them out killing high aV vheidls, or in the event they run into something so tough that a low number of Smash attacks won't deal with it as quickly as I would like.  Previously I had lost more Dreadnoughts to krak grenades glancing them to death than anything else.  Now with 4 Attacks base, Dreadnoughts wreck stuff to such an extent that even larger units with krak grenades have second thoughts about attempting to tarpit them in close combat.

PhilB is talking about a squadron of 3 hence no possibility to drop pod them.

 

Actually I own myself 6 or 7 dreads but since I've been used for years now to play them separatly, I've mounted them with different weapons options for all so I could choose the better weapons depending on my list.

 

I have the feeling that playing dreads in squadron implies that you must have them identical to prevent the "GW devastator squad" effect with each model using a different weapon though being able to target one single unit per shooting phase...

[Cloud Runner]

Nothing says they have to be identically armed (from what I recall) and it's much like the land speeder squadrons - the benefit of different weapon load outs is diversity, but at the expense of sometimes wasting weapons (lascannons vs grots, or heavy flamers vs landraiders)

 

I'm twitchy about the idea of a dread squadron, as they are fragile as hell already, and hits bouncing across the unit I'm not confident of their ability to survive. But then I haven't played for about 2 years, so maybe that's changed?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Dreadnought squdrons solved my problem of having 6 dreadnoughts and not enough elite slots. :D In game they also pull their weight, While before you could get away by assaulting a dreadnought and tar pitting it, now, if you assault a dreadnought squadron you get a one way ticket to hell, first class.

[Master Avoghai]

Nothing says they have to be identically armed (from what I recall) and it's much like the land speeder squadrons - the benefit of different weapon load outs is diversity, but at the expense of sometimes wasting weapons (lascannons vs grots, or heavy flamers vs landraiders)

 

They're not obliged but like I've said :"who play a devastator like on the boxset?"(one lascan, one HB, one MM, and one ML?)

 

I rarely play a squadron of speeder with differeny load out as well...

 

And I recognize that 3 dreads with assaultcannon and HF are apealling :rolleyes:

[Rodiger]

Phil B, I’m the guy who plays the Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer Power Fist, Dreadnought Squadron. I’m pleased someone else is getting joy out of it. I’ve been scratching my head why everyone seems to think Dreadnought’s are useless. I even watched a review of the Codex where the guy just skipped Dreadnoughts and said something like “ Dreadnoughts are terrible, so I’m not even going to talk about them” I have actually stopped taking it as it was a bit overpowered in the games I was playing,  I prefer to have closer games than one sided ones.

 

I think it is better than the Venerable Dreadnoughts as they can’t fire Overwatch at Full Ballistic Skill, or be Objective Secured, and you have to take a CAD to take them as a Squadron. Single Dreadnoughts are vulnerable and don’t put out that much damage.

 

I’d say it has a lot of uses other than just Hordes as well. The Powerfists will take out heavy armour, I destroyed a Landraider as soon as it was in charge range. 12 Assault Cannon shots will seriously damage any unit it shoots at, quite often there won’t be a unit left to charge. You can even take out a flyer and that is without Sky Fire. The benefits of this unit are immense, to recap, it’s Objective Secured, it can Overwatch at full Ballistic Skill, it has 12 strength 6 rending shots, 3 template Strength 5, 12 Strength 10 Ap2 Attacks at Initiative and 9 Hull Points, for 360 points. I think it has enough there to deal with most threats. 

[SnakeChisler]

The weapons came down in price mine are Las normally, double Lions blade will get you 2 + pods

 

Assault cannons are getting to be a go to weapon on speeder squads as well due to their high output 2nd only to typhoons

 

And you can't beat a heavy flamer for. Crowd control

[Frater Cornelius]

Anyone tried those against Tau Missile Spam and Eldar Jetbike spam? I can see those guys being solid against regulsr armies. But as soon as you face Tau Missiles, Scatterbikes/Warp Spiders or Grav, it will be over for them. They seem solid on paper, but I can not help but hesitate.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

But what doesn't melt in front of Eldar and Tau Spam? And do you face those armies exclusively/very frequently? I don't get why everything has to be awesome against Eldar and Tau to be approved for gaming. Because if that is the requisite, then we would only be playing Eldar and Tau. Proxy a dread squadron and try them yourself, you might be positively surprised. Going outside the box is not just for pure efficiency... it's also for refreshing play style.

[Frater Cornelius]

My meta is competitive enough to invalidate walking Dreads. Unfortunately, there are plenty of WAAC players here. While I enjoy beating them, I can only do so with optimized lists. I like using ignored units. This is why my competitive GK list uses Paladins. It did exceptionally well. However, walking Dreads become a liability against most armies these days. Hence I only use Dreads in Zone Mortalis or a suicide Drop with Wolves.

 

Having said that, I never used this setup before. Maybe they are worth the price of admission. If people have success with them, more power to them ;)

[malchos]

I will try it this weekend vs. Tyranids, albeit not with Lion's Blade, just with normal CAD.

 

My meta are mostly horde armies with exception of one Tau player, so this might be my next base since guys don't want me to play GK (they say I'm too out of balance for the ).

[Frater Cornelius]

I can see them doing very well against horde armies. They are basically immune to tarpits with 4A base. They will hack and shoot through them like a chainsaw goes through zombies ;)

[malchos]

Amen, my brother

[sneakybamsen]

I will try it this weekend vs. Tyranids, albeit not with Lion's Blade, just with normal CAD.

 

My meta are mostly horde armies with exception of one Tau player, so this might be my next base since guys don't want me to play GK (they say I'm too out of balance for the ).

 

If I may throw in my two cents here: Why not go Lion's Blade? It does about everything better than a CAD, except for rerolling warlord traits. Yes, the tax is greater in the Lion's Blade, but you get a lot of useful guys with obsec. 5 squads in fact compared to just two in the stock CAD. AND your overwatch is on paper twice as effective. You can always minimize the squads to 5 men, get 5 scouts for auxiliary and bring the hammer to the tyranids with the dreadnoughts. I don't know the points you are playing, but I would really consider a Lion's Blade.

 

Regards

Sneaky

[malchos]

I will try it this weekend vs. Tyranids, albeit not with Lion's Blade, just with normal CAD.

My meta are mostly horde armies with exception of one Tau player, so this might be my next base since guys don't want me to play GK (they say I'm too out of balance for the ).

If I may throw in my two cents here: Why not go Lion's Blade? It does about everything better than a CAD, except for rerolling warlord traits. Yes, the tax is greater in the Lion's Blade, but you get a lot of useful guys with obsec. 5 squads in fact compared to just two in the stock CAD. AND your overwatch is on paper twice as effective. You can always minimize the squads to 5 men, get 5 scouts for auxiliary and bring the hammer to the tyranids with the dreadnoughts. I don't know the points you are playing, but I would really consider a Lion's Blade.

Regards

Sneaky

Well 4 reasons:

1. We are playing 1500 pts. and I want to squeeze in both bikers (BN or regular) and termies

2. I like to play Ravenwing support squadron (this time with HB)

3. I don't want to power play the guy in every segment, I just want to experiment with this squadron in order to see how it would be against Orks (my main nemesis)

4. We will play Kill points

Rest of the army is basically a playable version of force from Dark Vengeance plus Ravenwing support squadron and 2 Libbies instead of Libby plus CM.

I don't want others to ban me from Dark Angels as well

I made 7 versions of the list, in which 3 are Lion's Blade, but I reconsider it because it felt too powerful for his current army, so I decided to tone it down and just try this.

This way I offer him a challenge, but also I'm not putting anything on table he hasn't met before (he is a relatively new player)

Against Orks? Well my brother, that's what I'm preparing my big guns for

Kidding, they are all friends and it is friendly game, and I hope I will help them see and accept Imperial Truth through cleansing with bolters and flamers

[Master Sheol]

i dont like that draed squadrons cannot take DP and dont get any advantage from being three like other veuichle squadrons do...

I own 1 regular dread and 2 venerable dreads (1 plastic and 1 FW) and if i use one or more of them i use a single one in DP with AC and HF...

[malchos]

Hi,

 

So I played dread squadron vs. tyranid horde and it was overkill.

 

Dreads ripped through most of opponents units and were easily MVP of the match.

 

I'm guessing against opponents with more anti-armour it would be hard, but horde armies that I meet are going to tray to beat this for a long, long time

[Berzul]

Played a game against Khornekin last friday. Had a single Dreadnought wit the AC+HF setup. Placed him in a drop pod and landed it behind enemy lines thanks to a very lucky roll.

 

In the span of two turns it wrecked a rhino full of khorne berserkers, then flamed and shot the unit that came out back to the warp, then charged a Soul Grinder and punched it into submission like it owed him money.

 

Then became the target to everything else in my opponents army, but by then the damage was done. The battle was won by the end of turn 4, with the help of my landspeeders.

 

Cant even imagine the mayhem 3 dreadnoughts could cause!!

 

Also, I was starting up a squad of 3 Dreads with HF and Lascannons, on the idea of using them as a vanguard squad that could pop up landraiders before torching their contents and charging the survivors.

[sneakybamsen]

Also, I was starting up a squad of 3 Dreads with HF and Lascannons, on the idea of using them as a vanguard squad that could pop up landraiders before torching their contents and charging the survivors.

 

Since quite few people, at least to my knowledge, have land raiders in their lists, I think the twinlinked lascannons are wasted. In most scenarios the assault cannons will outshine, cause of rending and more shots. Unless of course you play very though oppononts or high AV. I just got my third dreadie yesterday, and boy am I looking forward to ripping tyranids and eldar to pieces with those three 'noughts.

[malchos]

I leave anti-armor tasks to Ravenwing Attack Squadron formation as: Landspeeder (ML, HB) and 2 or 3x Attack bike (MM). For me, until now it works fantastic.

 

Basically, Landspeeder sits back and just shoots Landraider or any other armor, but with both ML and HB, because rule states that all you need is a hit, not to wound to increase BS. So these hits are more like Tau Marker Lights.

 

Attack bikes then hit the armor with their improved BS5 MMs.

[Berzul]

RWAS are not the point of this topic, but if we are taking a little leave to go on a tangent here, I am curious about the better statistical value of running either an attack bike squadron or a bike squadron on the RWAS.

 

I don't have more than one attack bike assembled and painted at the moment. Simply because I have never stopped to actually calculate what would be most beneficial, since we have grav guns.

 

I run a squad of 3 bikes (and 6 on larger games) with 2 grav guns (and I'm thinking of adding a combi grav soon), with a LS (that I usually equip with HB and AC). I will often times take an attack bike with MM along too. 

 

The while squadron goes for 240 points (which is close to the cost of your 3 attack bike squadron).

 

Which would be most statistically effective? 3 MM shots, or 9 grav shots + 1 MM shot? Given that the gravs only take hull points out on 6s, I mean. 

 

Im intrigued with the math here, to see if I should finish my attack bikes.

[Rodiger]

I notice the Tau KV128 Stormsurge is 360 points without upgrades is the same cost as the 3 Dreadnoughts. It’s got me thinking which would win in a contest. Looking at the rules for the Stormsurge ( I may have missed some things here, so apologies if I have), the Flamers, The Smart Missile System, and the Cluster Rocket System are not going to harm the Dreadnoughts (unless it is behind them). The Destroyer Missiles are Strength 8, these could do some damage to the Dreadnoughts, there are 4 of them and they are 1 use only, hitting on 4s needing 4s to glance, that’s not enough to cause a lot of problems. The Pulse Battle Cannon is the big threat, within 10” it can do 2 strength D AP1 attacks, if it has its Stabilising Anchors out it can take 2 shots but only from its second go, so a possible 4 Strength D shots. Statistically it should hit with 2 of them and cause about 4 HPs, enough to destroy 1 Dreadnought and wound another with a costly roll on the Damage Table. It’s second range is 2 Strength 10 AP3 , Blasts, it’s unlikely to hit all of the Dreadnoughts with 2 small blast templates and Ballistic Skill 3, but it glances on a 2+ and penetrates on a 3+. I’m guessing if it is firing twice it should cause about 3 HPs, enough to destroy 1 Dreadnought. With its last range 2 Strength 9 Large Blasts it should be able to hit all of them twice, if it is firing twice then 6 hits, Glancing on 3’s Pens on 4’s, there should be enough to destroy 1 Dreadnought. Supposing it didn’t have the anchors out and it decided to charge the dreadnoughts (I think it’s quite unlikely actively seeking out close combat with this thing) disregarding the Overwatch and the Dreadnoughts attacks at I4 for a moment, it will have 3 Strength 6 attacks hitting on 4’s Glancing on 6’s, not really enough there, then it will have some stomp attacks maybe causing 1 or 2 pens. Realistically the Stormsurge will be lucky to survive the Overwatch and the Powerfist attacks. I think the Stormsurge would take a couple of turns to destroy the Dreadnoughts with its shooting, I highly doubt any sane player would charge the Dreadnoughts though. 

 

The Dreadnoughts have the 12 Assault Cannon shots, guessing, I think it should take about 4 wounds off that, the Flamers are unlikely to do much damage, If they charge the 15 Powerfist attacks hitting on 3’s and wounding on 2’s will destroy it in no time.  

 

In an actual game would the Dreadnoughts ever be in range to actually attack the Stormsurge, and would they survive long enough other things shooting them to actually get there, maybe, maybe not. But I think the Dreadnoughts have the edge in a vs’s fight, they both have enough fire power to destroy each other in 1 go, but 2 is more likely. I may try proxy this with my Knight a few times see how it goes. What does anyone else think?