Dreadnought Squadrons - Hawt Damn!

[malchos]

Sorry for off topic.

 

Well for now I'm sold to this combo.

 

I have yet to try 3 AC Dreads vs Necrons and Tau, no idea how that will go, and vs. Orks after Tyranids I'm guessing it will go well.

 

I was really impressed by sheer amount of firepower of this unit, almost like a mini-deathstar.

[Rodiger]

I decided to play through the Dreadnoughts Vs The KV128 Stormsurge.

I apologise if I have made any mistakes.

I set the Dreads up 30” from the Stormsurge (proxied as an Imperial Knight,) then rolled for first turn. The Dreads won first go. 

The Stormsurge has 8 wounds by the way.

 

Round 1

Dreads 1st turn. 

I moved them 6” forward so they were 24” from the SS and fired all 12 Assault Cannon shots. This volley caused 5 wounds. So the SS was down to 3 wounds left

 

Stormsurge 1st turn.

I did not move the SS thinking it was best to stay still and shoot. I dropped the Anchors giving it 2 shots next turn but not allowing it to move. I shot the 4 Destroyer Missiles, 2 of these hit, one caused a glance and the second caused an explode. Loss of 1 Dread. I then shot the Battle Pulse Cannon, in its 3rd profile. This caused 2 hits resulting in 1 pen and 1 glance, the pen equalled a crew shaken.

 

Dreads 2nd turn.

I moved them 6” closer and fired again. This cause 2 wounds leaving the SS with 1 wound left.

 

Stormsurge 2nd turn

I shot the Battle Pulse Cannon twice in its 2nd profile, this caused 2 pens, leaving the 2nd Dread dead. 

 

Dreads 3rd turn.

I moved 6” and decided to run, thinking a successful assault would have a better chance of taking 1 wound than 4 shots. I ran 6” I now needed a 6 to get to complete the charge, luckily I rolled a 6 and completed the charge. The Hammer of Wrath failed to wound. I hit with all 5 attacks and caused 5 wounds leaving the Stormsurge dead.

 

I think exploding the Dreadnought first turn was quite lucky, but the Dreadnought only just made the charge, if it had failed it would have been in D range which almost certainly would have killed it.

 

Round 2

I decided to give the Stormsurge first turn.

 

Stormsurge 1st turn.

No movement drop Anchors. I shot the 4 Destroyer Missiles, 3 hit causing 1 glance and 2 pens killing one Dread. I then shot the BPC in its 3rd profile, this caused 1 hit which failed to cause a HP.

 

Dreadnoughts 1st turn.

Moved 6” forward and shot causing 3 wounds.

 

Stormsurge 2nd turn

BPC 3rd profile caused 1 pen with a crew shaken result.

 

Dreadnoughts 2nd turn

Moved 6”, shot and caused 2 wounds, 3 wounds left. 

 

Stormsurge 3rd turn

BPC 2nd profile causes 1 pen equalling a crew shaken.

 

Dreadnought 3rd turn.

At this point I decided to try 2 options to vary the test. So the first one I ran the Dreads then charged the SS. The Hammer of Wrath caused 1 wound then the following 10 attacks caused 3 wounds leaving the SS dead. The Second option was instead I tried shooting instead of running. This attack caused 4 wounds leaving the SS dead.

 

Round 3

I rolled again to see who had first turn and the Dreadnoughts won.

 

Dreadnoughts 1st turn.

I moved them 6” forward so they were 24” from the SS and fired, this volley caused 3 wounds. So the SS was down to 5 wounds left

 

Stormsurge 1st turn.

I did not move the SS, I dropped the Anchors I shot the 4 Destroyer Missiles, which all missed. I then shot the Battle Pulse Cannon, in its 3rd profile. This caused 2 hits but failed to cause a HP, very bad go.

 

Dreads 2nd turn.

I moved them 6” closer and fired again. I got 10 hits causing 5 wounds but the SS saved them all, also very bad go.

 

Stormsurge 2nd turn

I shot the Battle Pulse Cannon twice in its 2nd profile, this caused 1 pen resulting in a crew shaken.

 

Dreadnought 3rd turn

Moved 6” and shot causing 4 wounds, leaving the SS with 1 wound.

 

Stormsurge 3rd turn.

BPC 2nd profile causes 1 pen equalling a crew shaken.

 

Dreadnoughts 4th turn.

I didn’t move them so as not to enter the D range, and shot only needing to cause 1 wound with 3 Dreads, the resulting attack caused 5 wounds killing the SS.

 

In conclusion

If those Destroyer Missiles hit they are deadly, the BPC had a hard time as most of the attacks were in its 2nd profile and it’s quite hard to damage the squadron with the small blast templates. If you want to hurt the Stormsurge, Assault Cannons are the way to go, the Rending is lethal. Overall this situation would not happen in an actual game but it was a fun exercise, the Dreadnoughts more than held their own, I think the Stormsurge will be deadly to single Dreadnoughts but in a Squadron they stand a good chance of not being too troubled by it. If you can get the Dreadnoughts into close combat then the Stormsurge is gone.

Result: Dreadnoughts 3 KV128 Stormsurge 0     

 

Bonus.

I decided to try Drop Podding a Dreadnought in while it was set up to see how it went.

The results were not great for the Dreadnought.

Round 1 the Dread’s shots and attacks resulted in 5 wounds. The Stormsurge;s normal attacks failed but the single stomp caused a flip result killing the Dread.

Round 2 the Dread’s shots and attacks caused 4 wounds, the Stormsurge’s attacks did nothing but rolled 2 stomps resulting in 2 pens. Next turn the Dread caused 3 wounds so the SS was down to 1 left, the SS 2 stomps caused 1 pen and 1 flipped which was more than enough to kill the Dreadnought. 

 

In conclusion, one Dreadnought will seriously hurt the Stormsurge but I don’t think it has quite enough to kill it on its own. 

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Good thing that an army has a lot more things for the dreadnought to kill other then a storm surge. ;)

[mika_angelus]

 

I moved 6” and decided to run, thinking a successful assault would have a better chance of taking 1 wound than 4 shots. I ran 6” I now needed a 6 to get to complete the charge, luckily I rolled a 6 and completed the charge. The Hammer of Wrath failed to wound. I hit with all 5 attacks and caused 5 wounds leaving the Stormsurge dead.

 

You run and charged?

[Rodiger]

Whoops! Not sure how I forgot about that, I really don't. I was spending a lot of time concentrating on the Stormsurge rules, I don't play Tau, but still. 

Looking at it, I don't think it would have changed the overall outcome if I had just shot instead. 

[Berzul]

Has anyone tried plasma cannons instead of assault cannons?

 

They have the same range, higher strength, better ap, and fire on blasts. Potentially they could cause far more wounds than the assault cannons...

 

Yeah, scatter's a bitch and overheating is an issue but, if you are firing at 24 inches, maybe a s7 ap2 blast could do far more damage than 4 s6 rending hits

[Cypher 102]

The problem with Plasma Cannons is you don't get all of the Dark Angels overwatch joy.

[IanSturrock]

Plasma cannons are pretty much always underwhelming, unfortunately. Sure, that one game in a hundred you'll hit 3 terminators with a shot, or even 5-6 tac marines whose ride just exploded., but the other 99 games you'll find the assault cannon more useful, more killy, and more versatile... even without the DA super-overwatch.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I only use plasma cannons on venerable dreadnoughts because BS 5 makes scatter results more reliable. For some reason that one inch difference really helps to keep the blast lethal enough. My rule if thumb is use twin linked weapons on normal dreads and single weapons on venerable to use that high BS.

[Frater Cornelius]

I tried a single Ven Dread with Assault Cannon against Khorne Daemonkin. He and a single Scout will now be part of a diorama, because of how memorable their performance was. Against the right army, the 4A really make them shine.

[FerociousBeast]

Good to see the classic armament making a comeback. Assault cannon plus storm bolter or flamer was the most common way to field them years ago, for those new to the game.

[Berzul]

Tried a team of two dreadnoughts on a CAD yesterday vs Tau. One ven dread with AC+HF on Drop Pod, for a vanguard strike. A regular Dread with TL Lascannon on my zone, for fire support.

 

I got mixed results.

 

I was expecting the TL Lascannon to poke holes throught his Hammerhead, and the HF+AC to deal with his 6-man stealth suits (whith which he usually kicks my ass, 'cause I dont use much things that ignore cover).

 

The flamer did reduce his stealths in number a great deal, but then it got immobilized and blown up very quickly when mysupport terminators failed to arrive.

 

The lascannon did NOTHING agains his 3+ cover (buildings + disruption pods). But keeping him back gave me a strong hitting unit for when he dropped his own deepstriking squad. A crisis team full of plasma and flamers, that got crushed to bits on one assault.

 

Despite the mixed results, i think that the idea of covering the frontlines and the backline with one dread each is still a good idea.

 

I had very bad rolls, and didnt employ other units against his hammerhead. If the terminators had arrived earlier, and I had better maneuvered my bikes against his vehicles, I think the resutls would have been very different.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

No plan survives contact with the enemy. Indeed a lone drop padding Dread will have a short lifespan but he did cause some disruption. Keep using them until they work for you, I am sure you won't regret it.

[Berzul]

Thabks Lucifer!! :D

 

Indeed, I didn't expect him to survive. But I tried to play the odds. Gave him extra armor, and the drop pod had a locator beacon so that the terminators would land safely to support it.

 

The deathwing failed to arrive until the end of the fight (I missed the old deathwing rules so baddly during that fight). And my opponent had some VERY lucky shots.

 

In the end, it did what it was supposed to do, which was to reduce the stealth suits squad to an almost harmless size. Indeed, I didn't worry much about the surviving suits for the rest of the game.

 

I'll try it again for a few more games to see how it behaves.

[Malakithe]

How many squads of DW did you have?

[Berzul]

Oh just a single 5 man squad. Assault Cannon on them. It was just a support squadron for the Dreadnought. 

 

We were playing a custom king of the hill type of scenario. I was running two squads on rhinos up the center of the board to hold the hill, and landed the drop pod on a side to take care of the infiltrated stealth suits. The one DW squad was meant as a support to help the Dread hold the flank, while my bikes ran up the remaining side.

 

Saddly, the dread got immobilized in a VERY unlucky facing, and I kinda panicked a bit when my terminators didn't arrive. Instead of keeping to the bikes purpose I rerouted them to the weakened flank. 

 

In the end I lost by points, even though my bikes, along with my marines, managed to kill most of the main bulk of the enemy forces. It's just that they had to do it while giving some ground, and advancing qite slowly, which in turn gave me no chance to take the objective. By the time the DW arrived, the best I could do was deepstrike them behind enemy lines to take some shots at his firewarriors, hoping to take them out (or atleast rout them). Managed to reduce their numbers, but my opponent had some awesome Leadership rolls. In fact, NOTHING fled the whole fight.

[Berzul]

Im thinking of trying a squad with Autocannons and Heavy Flamers.

Anyone tried this?

On paper it sounds interesting.

It may be only 2 shots per Dread instead of 4, but it is at S7 instead of S6, with the same AP4, and at twice the range.

It doesn't rend, sure, but as much as that gives the Assault Cannon a clear edge, I think this configuration still poses a considerable threat. For one thing, it has better chances of hurting light vehicles as well as infantry. For another, since this unit cannot drop, and must walk over to the enemy in order to torch it, a 48 inch range of fire as they march up means you can start shooting a lot earlier in the fight, and your options for targets are greater all around, as it takes the enemy a bigger effort to avoid the killzone the squad creates.

Of course, there is no definitive option that can be labelled as THE BEST ONE EVER, but the more I think it over, the more conviced I become that this configuration of weapons can be quite as deadly and powerful, in it's own way.

 

Let's see how it works out...

[IanSturrock]

I think autocannon / DCCW dreads work OK as countercharge / late game melee units. You probably don't want to be walking it upfield the whole game. You probably keep it in cover for the first few turns, just plinking away with the autocannon, until you've at least reduced the number of enemy units who can mess up Armour 12. Then you walk it out and break something with your DCCW.

[Berzul]

Yeah. That sounds like the best suited plan. I am thinking this in the same sense or logic as the AC+HF combo. Its a unit you cannot drop pod, so you have to walk up to the enemy. The idea is that, Autocannons requiere 24 less inches of movement to start firing, when compared to Assault Cannons.

 

I think that, either way, you would need to move carefuly, and make good use of cover.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Actually the AC dread doesn't need to walk more 24" to engage. Usually armies are setup up 24" from each other, and even if the dread is a bit further back, with both armies moving, the AC dread should have a shot from turn one, if not, a 6" and a run should take care of it.

Also don't forget that with maelstrom missions and a smart positioning of the objectives you can ensure your AC dread will have range to cover 2,3 or even for potential objectives with the 24" range and a 6" move. Just some food for thought.

[Berzul]

True. Still, against particularly agile armies, those 24 inches can prove to be insufficient. Bikes and fast skimmers can avoid you pretty quickly, and position themselves perfectly to take you out, if you range is limited. 

 

Then again, this whole discussion is completely circumstancial. There is no "winning" strategy to go with. The Assault Cannon + Heavy Flamer combo has been proven awesome so far. I'm just thinking about what weaknesses that way of playing has.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

There's an option no one takes.. it's teh middle ground between the AutoC and the AC. The twin HB. 36" range.. twin linked. Probably a poor man's choice but I thought to throw this in the ring.

[Berzul]

There's an option no one takes.. it's teh middle ground between the AutoC and the AC. The twin HB. 36" range.. twin linked. Probably a poor man's choice but I thought to throw this in the ring.

 

Wow... yeah, I've never even HEARD of anyone going with heavy bolters.

 

Maybe because Landspeeders can wield heavy bolters so much better? I mean, they are half the price, twice the firepower, 4 times the mobility, and can deepstrike without extra costs. Unless it was to free up fast attack slots, why would anyone choose Dreadnoughts over Landspeeders?

 

I feel that 3 shots at S5 is wasted on something as expensive, bulky and intimidating as a Dread squad

[pueriexdeus]

Que Pasa. its been about 2.5 years since I have posted to the DA Forum. Life does things like that.

 

Dont have the latest Codex yet. But reading about Dread Squadrons made my blood surge. Those of you that may remember me, know that I've plenty of Dreads to use in this type of formation.

 

Neway, just a shout-out to say hi. I'll be back.

 

I've still plenty of models to build.

 

Later

[Hoots]

Hey I've been looking at running dread squadrons and agreebthat they are highly affective especially in the assault cannon flamer loadout.

 

My only concern is that they are pretty slow. I would love to be able to give them all drop pods and drop a cluster into the heart of the enemy, but sadly this isn't possible for the squadron.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong but could we throw sammael on sableclaw into the squadron? This would surely give them the additional 3" run and charge range right? As I am on holidays without a rule book I'm not sure if thy would benefit from scout (would be excellent)? Sammael also soaks up some fire power and has weapons which match the dreads, although he is very expensive.

 

Thoughts?

 

Hoots