Lord Asvaldir Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Preator Nostraman chainglaive iron halo jump pack 5 legion terminators reaper autocannon teleporter transponder Terror squad (10) volkite chargers sergeant with Nostraman chainglaive Terror squad (10) volkite chargers sergeant with Nostraman chainglaive Terror squad (10) volkite chargers sergeant with Nostraman chainglaive 10 man tactical squad rhino with dozer blades legion vexillia nuncio vox 10 man tactical squad rhino with dozer blades legion vexillia nuncio vox 15 Night Raptors 5 Nostroman Chainglaives Sergeant with Chainglaive Sicaran lascannon sponsons Sicaran lascannon sponsons Sicaran lascannon sponsons I have to say I love terror squads, they seem like a nice mix of an assault support unit to provide more numbers for a talent for murder, and have some solid close range firepower. Because of that I've of course considered the terror assault rite of war, however the one heavy support really is a bit of a turn off. Sicarans are just awesome, especially if I just flood heavy support with them, however one is just going to die too quickly and not do a whole lot, plus the tactical squads do have a useful role in helping out deep strikers. There is one thing that really worries me about this list, and that is reserve manipulation. I do plan on going for strategic traits and hoping for rerolling reserve rolls, but that's in no way guaranteed. I've heard there's the command rhino in tempest that can help with reserves (I only have the red books so not sure exactly how that rhino works), however finding pts to take out may be hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 As cool as the chain glaives are, I'd drop the one on your praetor for a paragon blade as its only 10 points more expensive. I'd also consider a void shield harness for him as you're going to be sticking him in a giant unit of night raptors which is sure to draw fire. What type of terminator armour are you using and what type of power weapons for them? Otherwise I'd say your list is a good starting point, though it does share a lot of the weaknesses of a terror assault list because you've included so many of them. The one place you're hurting a lot is 2+ armour removal as deathstars of cataphractii w/ characters and/or primarchs are a thing. Having played against a deathwing army with my own terror assault list I can tell you the weight of attacks just doesn't quite get the job done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted September 26, 2015 Author Share Posted September 26, 2015 Thanks again SkimaskMohawk, always good to have a veteran of a legion to take advice from. Paragon blade is better, I wanted to keep my preator cheap but for 10pts, probably worth it. I actually only have the red books, and I don't see a void shield harness in there, which book are the relics in? I am familiar with what it does though, certainly would be very helpful. I plan on using cataphractii armor, and power axes. I'm not a huge fan of terminators given I always feel like they die too quickly, so I want the better invul save. I do feel though I need the terminators, I need a second melee threat to take some pressure of the raptors. I hope they can also help a bit with that +2 armor removal, with a terror squad to support them they should outnumber most units. Hardly a foolproof method though, something else to deal with +2 armor is something I should consider. I might have gone overkill with the terror squads, I really do love them concept wise though and I figure when it comes to collecting, I can't go wrong with working on 3 squads right off the bat, so that I can use terror assault if I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Its currently in Book 4: Conquest with all the other Relics. As for the melee unit threat, the 3 units of 10 terror marines are a big one. 40 preferred enemy attacks per unit are scary. Especially when you out number. And cause fear. The amount of units of TS are only a bit large when you're not running the RoW, maybe squads of 5 to get some more stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 Hmm that's a bummer, if there's any of the full Heresy books I'd want it's massacre given that has Night Lords lore in it. Don't think conquest is worth it just for the relics. I haven't considered terror squads too much as melee units, I guess I should think of them more that way. Question is if I drop down to 15 terror squad members, what do I spend those pts on? Really not sure what I'd replace them with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Alrighty few things I'd make changes to with this, based on my own experience playing Night Lords. 1) Paragon blades are always the trump weapons for Praetors. AP2 at initiative with potential instant death. 2) Drop a Terror Squad completely and get rid of the chainglaives on the others and give the Headsmen artificer armour and melta bombs instead 3) Terror Squads are probably the best melee unit available to Night Lords, certainly much better than Raptors. I'll have to check the wording on the unit entries but if you can give them ccw and volkites you're in business because they chew through 3+ infantry with abandon. 4) Tactical squads are OK, only thing I'd question is the nuncio vox. Are you going to mass reserve the army? Because that's all it's really helpful for. The other usage for a vox is for barraging weapons but there aren't any contained in the list. Little clarification would be good before commenting on whether they're good or bad. 5) Cataphractii. If you're teleporting them then you need a full squad to soak up the avalanche of fire that will come their way when they drop in. 2+/4++ is good but isn't immortal. Personally I wouldn't be teleporting, I'd take a Spartan or a Land Raider to carry them because they aren't getting anywhere fast on their own and vanilla terminators aren't good with shooting (at least compared to IF/Lernaeans/Tyrants) I'd consider running a Primus Medicae or Librarian with them just to add even more beef. 6) Raptors, persoanlly I'd get rid of them altogether. I've never found them useful other than as a meatshield for Konrad. A 450 point Primarch can justify a 400 point bodyguard unit. A 200 point Praetor, not so much. Don't get me wrong, with the right rolls for onslaught their damage output can be breathtaking but point for point, Terror Squads are simply better in assault. 7) I like the idea of a few Sicarans although in this case I'd lean towards dropping one for a Deredeo, purely on the basis of securing yourself against air power. Sicarans can do the job but you don't want to be pouring the shots from the accelerator cannons and hoping for 6s whereas as Deredeo can use the missile launcher to go after Fire Raptors and Storm Eagles and still keep the autocannons/plasma bfg trained on the ground targets. Overall I think it's a pretty solid base but it needs more punch to take the weight off the Terror Squads shoulders because tooled up with Volkites they become priority number one. One thing you might want to consider would be Sevatar. Pod him with a Terror Squad and Turn 2 in come the Terminators without a scatter threat and ready to dispense violence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 Alright so with those thoughts in mind here's an alternative list: Preator cataphractii terminator armor paragon blade 10 cataphractii terminators 10x power axes, 2x reaper autocannons Spartan with flare shields, dozer blades, auxiliary drive, armored ceramite, frag assault launchers terror squad (10) sergeant with artificer armor and melta bomb volkite chargers terror squad (10) sergeant with artificer armor and melta bomb volkite chargers terror squad (10) sergeant with artificer armor and melta bomb volkite chargers tactical squad (10) rhino with dozer blades legion vexillia tactical squad (10) rhino with dozer blades legion vexillia Sicaran lascannon sponsons armored ceramite Sicaran lascannon sponsons armored ceramite I didn't drop the 3rd terror squad because I figured there's not much else I'd like to replace it with, given I have a spartan I don't feel the need for 3 sicarans, however I certainly could drop a terror squad and take a 3rd heavy support. Tactical squads had nucio voxes because I wanted deep strike the raptors and terminators, but I've never really been happy with jump pack assault squads so I certainly don't feel a need for raptors. Truth be told I don't really want tactical squads, and I am strongly considering terror assault given that means I won't need them, however that does make me wonder what to spend their pts on plus the pts from dropping a sicaran. Terror squads can take volkite chargers and bolt pistols/ccws, so seems like a no brainier upgrade to me. I am wondering though why do you not like chainblades on the sergeants? Figured a little ap3 would be nice to have. What book is the deredeo in? I only have the red books. Sevetar is someone I think I'll use from time to time, at least initially I'd rather use a none named character, but Sevetar is pretty cool and I did already order him so I'll have him to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 If you're using terror assault you only have one heavy support slot. Additionally, getting Terror Squads AND tac squads isnt the best use of points since they both do the same job only one does it better namely the terror squads. The points saved by not taking tacs would give you more leeway in getting more anti-vehicle punch into your list; something it seems to be missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I actually quite like that list. It's got a lot of threat saturation and those tactical squads have got some nice mobility as well. Personally I'm a fan. Fair enough on the 3rd Terror Squad, especially given that there's going to be plenty of panic with a Spartan loaded catastar tearing up the board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 If you're using terror assault you only have one heavy support slot. Additionally, getting Terror Squads AND tac squads isnt the best use of points since they both do the same job only one does it better namely the terror squads. The points saved by not taking tacs would give you more leeway in getting more anti-vehicle punch into your list; something it seems to be missing. That's why I'm not sure I want to use terror assault, one sicaran just won't cut it and I feel like one heavy support can't do a whole lot. Just don't see what I gain from going terror assault besides no need to use tacticals. See but if I drop the tacticals and go for more anti tank, then I have to drop the sicarans and find something else. I have to say I think sicarans are amazing, given they are fast I've used them before to get to the side armor of a spartan and knock off hull points with just rending. Plus 2 laser destroyers from the spartan is nice against vehicles, and I took autocannons on the termiantors to deal with popping rhinoes. Does mean for the most part I rely on those 3 tanks for anti armor, but I think I'll be ok. @Bathamal: thanks man, got in my first test online vs nids and it did fairly well, 10 termiantors vs 5 I noticed made a huge difference, especially with the spartan on the board my terror squads didn't have low ap weapons coming their way as much, and the tacticals are not bad to have around for grabbing objectives, since they basically get ignored since the terror squads are so much more potent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 For the Spartan, don't take LasDestroyers. 2 Shots at S9 Ap2 Ordnance 1 vs 4 TL Lascannon Shots is not worth the swap even if it is free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 Hmm, I guess that could be true. I just use laser destroyers with my renegades and heretics army and they are very good, but given you can't snap shoot ordnance I suppose you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 With the changes to Night Fighting brought in for 7th ed Terror Assault lost it's main appeal: namely getting up the board with hefty cover saves in the first couple of turns. Nowadays I only run Terror Assault with Konrad to take advantage of the extra force multipliers he brings to the table. And yes the Quad Lascannons are a much better option than laser destroyers. Re-rolling misses is much better than +1 on the dmg chart, especially for S9 weaponry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 Ya stealth for a turn is nice, but a small chance to continue that for another turn is not really worth being forced to have only one heavy support. I was thinking Laser Destroyers were twin linked, given they are not definitely makes them not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 You also get get +1 initiative and +1" to your Run moves while the night persists. You can use it to really hustle your guys into position on turn one to get a nice charge off on turn 2. You can reliably get 2 turns of night so at the very least that's two turns of stealth for the 3+ cover save (I seem to get the full 3 turns every other game somehow though). Heavy Support is good, but there's a lot of ways around the limit; double grav contemtors, mortis contemptors, normal mortis dreads, grav cannnons, thudd guns, dedicated spartans, dedicated raiders, lightning strike fighters, xiphon interceptors, attack bike squads, land speeder squads and javelins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 I feel like I'm missing something, in what book is the +1 initiative and 1" run move added? Also it the second turn of night fighting still only work on a +5? That just doesn't feel that reliable to me. Those are all potential alternative to sicarans, it would just all come down to figuring out what works. Dreads in particular is something I see as hard to use-with grav guns they are short range, while their drop pod feels a bit expensive to me. Perhaps that's worth it though, I really have no experience with using dreads. I do love javelins though, and with 2 less sicarans plus dropping the tacitcals there's a fair amount of pts to play with, certainly another alternative list using terror assault to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf This FAQ has been out for a while, but it seems to be missed by many players. Mods, can we please get it stickied maybe? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Ive been thinking of making a READ BEFORE POSTING LIST thread. Ill talk to flint/bck about it when i get home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 My bad. That makes terror assault a whole lot more appealing, I'll make an alternative list using terror assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Yea the FAQ is also nice as it gives terror squads and sev precision strike and shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 So I'm liking my standard force org list, tried it a few times online and it's done well, but I'd also like to work towards a 2500 Terror Assault list to try as well, so here is my first attempt: Preator jump pack, paragon blade, iron halo, digital lasers, trophies of judgement Terror Squad (10) volkite chargers, huntsman with melta bomb and nostroman chainglaive Terror Squad (10) volkite chargers, huntsman with melta bomb and nostroman chainglaive Terror Squad (10) volkite chargers, huntsman with melta bomb and nostroman chainglaive Legion Veterans Squad (10) 2x melta guns, legion drop pod, legion vexilla, melta bombs 15 raptors 5x nostroman chainglaives 6 legion jetbikes 2x volkite culverin, sergeant, melta bombs 6 legion jetbikes 2x volkite culverin, sergeant melta bombs Might be surprising I'm taking no vehicles, which I'm doing because I follow a "non or all" ideology for vehicles, namely taking enough for target saturation, or none at all. With that one heavy support slot I just don't feel like it's worth taking too many, which is why I'm almost entirely relying on melta bombs for anti vehicle, which I think will work out alright. Jetbikes and veterans should easily be able to get into position to take down any vehicles. What I'm not sure about is the raptors-I really want to run them because they are great models (I'll probably be using csm raptors), plus they benefit from terror assault more than terminators, the extra run and cover should help them reach a turn 2 assault position fairly easily. My biggest concern is that they are too much of a target magnet, something I hope to lessen by taking so many jetbikes, which I feel supplement night lords well. However, 2 units of raptors would be really nice, I'm just not sure what to take as another anti tank unit in place of the 2nd jetbike unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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