What was the reason Alphas joined the rebellion?

[TennisBall]

I get that they were told something about chaos taking over if mankind were allowed to survive. 

What I don't get is how a bunch of aliens were able to influence seemingly intelligent primarchs to turn traitor.

Wouldn't they have been better off trying to set up a cabal of their own to fight chaos?

I don't see where the final payoff was supposed to be and why would they care if the galaxy fell to chaos if humanity was not wiped out? Their whole point in existing was to protect humanity and serve the Emperor.

 

I could believe that it was decided that the nascent Ecclesiarchy would be better at defending against chaos than the atheistic Emperor, but not that they needed to do it for the benefit of a bunch of xenos.

 

[Marshal Loss]

Their motivations are extremely complicated and I think it's a mistake to assume the Alpha Legion all entered into the Heresy for the same reason. It's been hinted (stated overtly in some places) that there will be a major schism in the Alpha Legion in the future (I am not sure whether this is actually during the Heresy or the Scouring), which itself points towards different goals.

 

Read the background for the XX Legion in HH: Extermination, and take a look at some of the short stories featuring them to get a general idea of how they're being portrayed nowadays. They've moved on a lot from the portrayal of them in 'Legion' (& no longer need the Cabal, the bunch of aliens you referred to).

[v6v77]

Their motivations are extremely complicated and I think it's a mistake to assume the Alpha Legion all entered into the Heresy for the same reason. It's been hinted (stated overtly in some places) that there will be a major schism in the Alpha Legion in the future (I am not sure whether this is actually during the Heresy or the Scouring), which itself points towards different goals.

 

Read the background for the XX Legion in HH: Extermination, and take a look at some of the short stories featuring them to get a general idea of how they're being portrayed nowadays. They've moved on a lot from the portrayal of them in 'Legion' (& no longer need the Cabal, the bunch of aliens you referred to).

When i spoke to Alan bligh about the legion splitting at the open day he calmmed up and said spoilers. He said he has big plans for our legion during the heresy.

 

Expect schemes within plans within plots that would make even tzeentchs head explode.

[Ozeryk_Sleipnijr]

The most confused legion in the setting. Looking foward to slaughter of these infiltrator rats in the Wolf King.

[Excessus]

The Alpha Legion and A&O firmly believe that humanity will advance itself through strife. Peace makes humanity complacent, so...war! :)

 

War is the galaxy's hygiene, after all...

[Legatus]

This was their original lore:

 

"The Alpha Legion was the twentieth and last legion created in the first founding. Under the critical eye of their Primarch during the Great Crusade the Legion became renowned for its discipline and strict organisation. Though the youngest Legion, the Alpha Legion sought to outshine its brethren in all things as if to prove their worthiness amidst the older Legions. The Alpha warriors adopted the symbol of the hydra as their Legion's symbol. This many-headed, dragon-like creature from ancient myth served to remind the brethren of the Alpha Legion of their ultimate unity in body and spirit. On the battlefield the terrifying coordination of the Alpha Legion was their hallmark, their attacks kept the enemy under relentless pressure while they sought a weak point in their defenses.

When Horus made his pact with Chaos the martial pride of the Alpha Legion was their downfall. The Warmaster was a mighty warrior himself, he commanded armies and fleets and fought at the forefront of the Emperor's wars. By comparison he made the distant Emperor on Terra seem a weak and cowardly individual. The Warmaster was a leader worthy of their respect, the Emperor sought only to exploit Horus's conquests and crush the liberated humans of the galaxy beneath his stifling regime. So the lies were insinuated into the hearts and minds of the Alpha Legion, and if any lie is repeated often enough it begins to be accepted, and once accepted it becomes truth.

Joyously, the Alpha Legion clashed with loyalist Space Marines on Istvaan V and the campaigns thereafter. Here at last was an opponent fully as tough, as war trained, as ferocious as themselves. The brethren of the hydra inflicted stinging defeats on the loyalists at Tallarn, Yarant and dozens of smaller outposts before moving onwards into the Ultima Segmentum like an all destroying comet. The Alpha Legion became entirely separated from the forces of Horus but continued to wage war on all they came across. By the end of the Heresy they were inventing objectives and missions of their own to fulfil their war-lust without reference to their allies."

- 2nd Edition Codex Chaos, p. 15

 

"The Alpha Legion was the twentieth and last Legion created in the First Founding. Though the youngest, or perhaps because of it, the Alpha Legion sought to outshine its brethren in all things, as if to prove their worthiness amidst the older Legions. Their pride led to a number of incidents where members of the Alpha Legion clashed with and even fought against members of the other legions in existence at that time. In particular there seems to have been a strong mutual hatred between the Alpha Legion ans the Imperial Fists as they had clashed on more than one occasion prior to the Heresy.

When Horus made his pact with Chaos, the martial pride of the Alpha Legion was their downfall and they were among the first to join him. The legion clashed with loyal Space Marines on Istvaan V and in the campaigns thereafter, any need for restraint forgotten."

- 3rd Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines (1999), p. 32

 

"After that meeting [with Guilliman], Alpharius pushed his Legion even harder and sought out the most difficult challenges for his forces. He knew he could not equal the number of worlds conquered by the older Legions, for they had been founded centuries earlier, but he seemed determined to win their respect for his Legion's martial prowess. (...)

His conduct in the battle for Tesstra invited censure from many quarters, (...)  Alpharius was furious at the reaction to his Legion's masterful performance. Only Horus openly praised the manner in which the Alpha Legion had overcome an opposition that outnumbered them a hundred to one. Horus was the only other Primarch with whom Alpharius had any regular contact. The two appeared to respect each other greatly and are thought to have discussed tactics often. (...)

Exactly when Alpharius chose to side with the Warmaster is not clear. Certainly, he spent more time with Horus than he ever did with the Emperor. Perhaps there was an understanding between them right from the beginning.

However, it is not thought that Alpharius was blindly following Horus, for he seemed to have his own agenda. He relished every battle against loyalist Space Marines as the ultimate test of military skill. Again and again, the Alpha Legion proved it was the match of the other Legions. Alpharius's forces started going out of their way to find Space Marine opponents and inflict stinging defeats on the loyalist White Scars at Tallarn, a Space Wolves company at Yarant, and other Legions at dozens of smaller outposts. Well before the Warmaster's forces reached Terra, the Alpha Legion had become separated but continued to wage war on all they came across. Even after the defeat of Horus on Terra, the Alpha Legion continued on unchecked, apparently inventing objectives and missions with absolutely no connection to the rebellion as a whole."

- 3rd Edition Index Astartes Alpha Legion

 

"The Alpha Legion was the last of the First Founding Chapters and from its inception was determined to prove its worth relative to the older Legions. Their Primarch, Alpharius perpetuated this rivalry and encouraged self-reliance, discipline and innovative tactics in his Legion. The Alpha Legion respected strength and despised the weak. They were drawn to the strength of Warmaster Horus and welcomed the opportunity to test themselves against their brother Space Marines. Although they joined the Heresy the Alpha Legion stayed distinct from the other Traitor Legions and fought its own campaign."

- 3rd Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines (2002), p. 40

 

Though their description in the BL novel series is very different, the FW book did a great job reconciling their BL "super spy" theme with the original "martial pride" elements. Possibly we are going to see a sort of "reverse-Dark Angels", where the Legion sides with Horus but a significant part of the Legion opposes them.

[TemujinZero]

Their motivations were hinted at in Legion, but that essentially ended in a cliffhanger and has since been ignored by every other author who just treats them as one dimensional villains.  There's little hope now that we'll get any answers worth hearing.  I fully expect we'll get an oh so predictable schism between the twin Primarchs with only vague or groan-inducing motivations for either side.  

 

In my head they'll always be a legion out to remain their own masters, engaging every side only to ensure they come out on top with nobody any the wiser about their true nature.  My legion listened with interest to everything the Cabal had to say, and then once no more could be learned, knifed them in the back and figured out their own way to best handle the situation without assuming that everything they heard was necessarily true.  My legion accepted that the heresy was going to happen and framed their role in it so as to best serve their interests, without making any genuine commitment to either side.  My legion is not composed of two chessmasters playing with their personal army of pawns, but an army of chessmasters, on the same page as each other even if they're in the dark as to exactly what other parts of the legion are doing at any given time.  My legion takes care of their own, including their human agents.

 

Unfortunately for me, my legion is just my rather optimistic reading of Dan Abnett's Legion, so even if it ever did exist in something approaching this form when the book came out, they certainly don't now.  My legion is dead, and has been replaced by a too sneaky for their own good foil for the loyalists.

[Sviar]

Expect schemes within plans within plots that would make even tzeentchs head explode.

That what I like about them

If I remember correctly the Alpha Legion saves Raven Guard from extinction when the flee from Isstvan V by attacking a WB vessel from whithin. Letting Corax and RG go due to that they had other plans for them.

Source: Deliverance Lost

[Vesper]

The Alpha Legion and A&O firmly believe that humanity will advance itself through strife. Peace makes humanity complacent, so...war!

War is the galaxy's hygiene, after all...

Sci-fi Marinetti .

[TennisBall]

The earlier fluff from 3rd ed was sound, they should have kept it and expanded upon it.

Now we're left with a confusing mess because Legion really didn't give an explanation for why they turned, just that they did. I recall the ending was wiping out non-Legion assets in the fleet. I'm surprised they did that too because Horus doesn't just get half the legions on his side, he gets a large part of the Imperium. 

[Emperor's Furor]

The earlier fluff from 3rd ed was sound, they should have kept it and expanded upon it.

Now we're left with a confusing mess because Legion really didn't give an explanation for why they turned, just that they did. I recall the ending was wiping out non-Legion assets in the fleet. I'm surprised they did that too because Horus doesn't just get half the legions on his side, he gets a large part of the Imperium. 

The Imperium forces with them wouldn't of turned, there was a reason the commander had bodyguards made up of one of the most renowned units in the whole Imperium.

[Xin Ceithan]

All of the above. Nothing of the above.

 

That is part of the fun and part of the problem with AL.

The HH 3 fluff is great, as it makes all The older fluff possible and ignorable at The same time. ( e.g. The last Legion created - really? )

But it makes it even more convoluted and in The end useless to figure out why the Alpha Legion turned (if/when/which/who?)

 

(In related news: the next Warlord Titan Upgrade will be an Apokalypse smoke launcher and a mirror Tower shield for AL allied Titan forces)

 

The more "Static" Legions didn't just wake up and decide to turn traitor one morning as whole Legions ( Not even the Word Bearers )!Alphas will have covered the whole spectrum. Add the informed guess that AL recruited from planets and cultures around the galaxy and that all Legions had to step up recruitment during the heresy - the AL post heresy will differ from those before in a lot of ways. And with AL worshipping the twins (All-you-Need-to-know and Operational Security --see what I did there ;) ). It would not be surprising that a Lot of Coils / Cells operated in the dark and from very different perspectives.

 

I really like LEGION a lot. It screws with our ideas from start to finnish. Who and what AL are. How astartes legions work and how they fight.

How primarchs work. How the Emperor uses primarchs and Legions. And opens up more questions:

Why are there twin primarchs in the first place? Probably not by accident. And at least some AL know about "khaos" and taint. Even back then. Way before Istvaan. While Sanguinius blunders into Signus unaware years later...

Also Legion took up an idea regarding the Emperor from His Background in the Rogue Trader days: His first mission is to fight Chaos. Not enlighten Humanity. That is an end to a cause. So maybe AL were supposed to be some sort of proto Inquisition strike teams / legion ( without the divine emperor and sorcery mumbo jumbo? If the endgame is not "Humanity First!" But "victory over khaos at any cost". Well then using the Cabal plan is not so farfetched suddenly.

 

My Alphas go darkside like radical inquisitors: with best intentions. A step at a time. By any means neccessary. And the hubris to believe they will get away with it.

[TennisBall]

Also Legion took up an idea regarding the Emperor from His Background in the Rogue Trader days: His first mission is to fight Chaos. Not enlighten Humanity. That is an end to a cause.

Maybe, but why is the Emperor opposed to chaos if not to protect humanity? All the above does is shift the same question from one group to another, it doesn't actually look at the underlying reasons.

It also doesn't answer anything like why Alpharius chose to listen to xenos rather than take his concerns to fellow primarchs. Personally I'd take with a large pinch of salt anything that the Eldar had to say about the future given that they failed to see the birth of Slaneesh.

[Xin Ceithan]

I will come back to this Investor I am home. Need to Look up some Details and find it arkward to type longer text on my mobile.

 

But

 

If you are looking for straight FACTS in anything AL (At least nowadays) you are a lost cause.

That is all we are getting at The best of times - a few half truths, a hint at the bigger pocture. Lots of smoke and mirrors.

In the end, we, as an audience, are not cleared for that Level of information ;)

[Marshal Rohr]

Didn't Alpharius get upset because he didn't get a statue? Or was it a talking painting?

 

I can never remember why the traitor Primarchs turned anymore.

[Xin Ceithan]

Why did I pack away my treasure of RT löst and the Damned and HH novels before moving? Why didn't I foresee I Would need them for nitpicking in the Internet? Foolish me! :)

 

Anyway, the fluff has been tossed around so much. IIRC, there were shamans in primordial humanity, who knew humanity was touched by Khaos and tried to hold khans back. The were reborn, but that left humanity without defense until their rebirth and the chaos powers were continual as a threat. So they sacrificed themselves to pool all their power into one vessel, a single reborn gestalt shaman, which guide humanity and protect it from Chaos. That being became known as the Emperor.

If and how much that is still considered in the current fluff, I do not honestly know. There are elects of that in the ways khans is depicted in the HH novels. Khaos as an emery to existence in the material universe " the primordial annihilatior" . Removing the threat of Chaos as the Emperor' s endgame (if only for mankind's benefit or not is not relevant for the discussion here)

 

Haven' t read " Legion" in a while, but let's go over what and why it is making a good AL book and offers a at least internally consistent reason why they side with Horus.

This a shrewd, clever little book. With so many levels and spins on readers expectations and twists and turns. It's little wonder DAn Abnett stated that it was a difficult thing to write.

 

First, we are shown that AL operates vastly different to what we had seen so far in Astartes legion operations to that point.

The way we are meeting the AL primarch and how the characters meet and react.

We also learn that the place the emphasis on the results. There is little glory hounding here.It doesn't t seem relevant to AL if the Primarch is indeed among them or not for mission purposes. And while we all may roll our eyes at the " I am Alpharius" thing by now. It works on so many levels here in Legion and in the Legion.

If you read those books the order they are published...did anyone really consider that it could be any one other than the Primarch who answered " I AM ALPHARIUS" in the opening? And could very well have been. Wouldn't it also be so AL to have their prim arch rescue a lone army trooper and not make a big fuzz about it?

When we first meet Horus in Horus Rising he is God,y, literally appearing from thin air, a god among among men , blabla...

When we meet Alpharius... He acts while the reader and the army soldier are in over their head...and it' s more "oh, and I am alpharius by the way. Now run for your life"

We also learn that the AL operates in the area with full knowledge about the imperial forces on site and that those forces are unaware of the Al.

We are shown that they are using non astartes. Both with and without the knowledge that they are working towards the AL goals.

AL has an objective beyond the compliance of the planet and is primarily focused on that.

AL is willing and expecting to sacrifice everything and to use any means at their disposal towards that goal.

 

I will shortly distress here. Yes, all legions are about getting the job done. By any means. By whatever sacrifice necessary.

The difference to me is in the following examples:

 

Let's take Iron Warriors. The were not called "Corpse Grinders" for nothing. No quarrels about shoving Astartes, Mechanicum or Imperial Army into the meat grinder. They expect you to die if that's your job. Hyanidae put it best some where. An Iron Warrior dies when has to, with grim determination and a curse on your lips. As an Iron Warrior, you are a tool. The tool neede to achieve victory. Wether your function is to plan victory or to die to achieve it is situational, hierarchical or just dumb luck.

 

In AL you are also a tool to victory. But you are THE tool. You are expected to be the exact thing, the best tool needed at any given notice. To the Hydra you are what the situation calls for. If it calls for you to die unceremoniously as a lowly grunt, so be it. If it calls for you to be a primarch, leading an entire legion to war, that's just another day on the job. Every part of the Hydra is supposed to be " an army of one". A PRIMARCH OF ONE. That, to me is the quintessence of " I am Alpharius".

 

now back on topic.

We also see that AL are open to use personnel and information from the outside if it's considered mission critical.

( John Grammaticus )

We are shown that AL know about Khaos and how it taints and that they are trained to take care of it ( executing an army trooper because he is tainted by shrapnel and considered a lost cause)

In summary;

Let's assume that we have a results orientated force, that is used to operate autonomy, use any means at their disposal and any any means necessary and assume that at least the Primarchs are already aware of the ultimate goal of the Emperor' s plan to stop chaos.

They are then approached by a potential ally ( the Cabal) who is fighting the real enemy( primordial annihilatior). Said potential ally has already shown at that point that is at least willing to work with humans and has already provided mission critical Intel (Grammaticus, the Chaos doomsday device). You are the.n shown that Horus WILL become a tool for the ultimate enemy and then shown two options: fight Horus and doom the whole galaxy to a slow painfull slide into a galaxy wide Eye of Terror style realm of chaos or fight with Horus, sacrifice yourself and humanity to save all other life in the galaxy and defeat the ulterior enemy. The Emperor's endgame, right? So, for the Emperor, indeed.

Now I am not assuming AL is just taking the Cabal info at face value. But it's consistent with their actions and beliefs over the entire book that they will at least try to get to a shot at that.

And it takes place way before Istvaan. Which is consistent with the purge of the Army forces at the end of Legion. Those have proven, for the most part, to be not really flexible enough to adapt to what is necessary. They are a risk to operational security. They have to die so that the Legion can prepare for the primary mission ahead.

[Machine God]

This was their original lore:

 

 

"The Alpha Legion was the twentieth and last legion created in the first founding. Under the critical eye of their Primarch during the Great Crusade the Legion became renowned for its discipline and strict organisation. Though the youngest Legion, the Alpha Legion sought to outshine its brethren in all things as if to prove their worthiness amidst the older Legions. The Alpha warriors adopted the symbol of the hydra as their Legion's symbol. This many-headed, dragon-like creature from ancient myth served to remind the brethren of the Alpha Legion of their ultimate unity in body and spirit. On the battlefield the terrifying coordination of the Alpha Legion was their hallmark, their attacks kept the enemy under relentless pressure while they sought a weak point in their defenses.

When Horus made his pact with Chaos the martial pride of the Alpha Legion was their downfall. The Warmaster was a mighty warrior himself, he commanded armies and fleets and fought at the forefront of the Emperor's wars. By comparison he made the distant Emperor on Terra seem a weak and cowardly individual. The Warmaster was a leader worthy of their respect, the Emperor sought only to exploit Horus's conquests and crush the liberated humans of the galaxy beneath his stifling regime. So the lies were insinuated into the hearts and minds of the Alpha Legion, and if any lie is repeated often enough it begins to be accepted, and once accepted it becomes truth.

Joyously, the Alpha Legion clashed with loyalist Space Marines on Istvaan V and the campaigns thereafter. Here at last was an opponent fully as tough, as war trained, as ferocious as themselves. The brethren of the hydra inflicted stinging defeats on the loyalists at Tallarn, Yarant and dozens of smaller outposts before moving onwards into the Ultima Segmentum like an all destroying comet. The Alpha Legion became entirely separated from the forces of Horus but continued to wage war on all they came across. By the end of the Heresy they were inventing objectives and missions of their own to fulfil their war-lust without reference to their allies."

- 2nd Edition Codex Chaos, p. 15

"The Alpha Legion was the twentieth and last Legion created in the First Founding. Though the youngest, or perhaps because of it, the Alpha Legion sought to outshine its brethren in all things, as if to prove their worthiness amidst the older Legions. Their pride led to a number of incidents where members of the Alpha Legion clashed with and even fought against members of the other legions in existence at that time. In particular there seems to have been a strong mutual hatred between the Alpha Legion ans the Imperial Fists as they had clashed on more than one occasion prior to the Heresy.

When Horus made his pact with Chaos, the martial pride of the Alpha Legion was their downfall and they were among the first to join him. The legion clashed with loyal Space Marines on Istvaan V and in the campaigns thereafter, any need for restraint forgotten."

- 3rd Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines (1999), p. 32

"After that meeting [with Guilliman], Alpharius pushed his Legion even harder and sought out the most difficult challenges for his forces. He knew he could not equal the number of worlds conquered by the older Legions, for they had been founded centuries earlier, but he seemed determined to win their respect for his Legion's martial prowess. (...)

His conduct in the battle for Tesstra invited censure from many quarters, (...) Alpharius was furious at the reaction to his Legion's masterful performance. Only Horus openly praised the manner in which the Alpha Legion had overcome an opposition that outnumbered them a hundred to one. Horus was the only other Primarch with whom Alpharius had any regular contact. The two appeared to respect each other greatly and are thought to have discussed tactics often. (...)

Exactly when Alpharius chose to side with the Warmaster is not clear. Certainly, he spent more time with Horus than he ever did with the Emperor. Perhaps there was an understanding between them right from the beginning.

However, it is not thought that Alpharius was blindly following Horus, for he seemed to have his own agenda. He relished every battle against loyalist Space Marines as the ultimate test of military skill. Again and again, the Alpha Legion proved it was the match of the other Legions. Alpharius's forces started going out of their way to find Space Marine opponents and inflict stinging defeats on the loyalist White Scars at Tallarn, a Space Wolves company at Yarant, and other Legions at dozens of smaller outposts. Well before the Warmaster's forces reached Terra, the Alpha Legion had become separated but continued to wage war on all they came across. Even after the defeat of Horus on Terra, the Alpha Legion continued on unchecked, apparently inventing objectives and missions with absolutely no connection to the rebellion as a whole."

- 3rd Edition Index Astartes Alpha Legion

"The Alpha Legion was the last of the First Founding Chapters and from its inception was determined to prove its worth relative to the older Legions. Their Primarch, Alpharius perpetuated this rivalry and encouraged self-reliance, discipline and innovative tactics in his Legion. The Alpha Legion respected strength and despised the weak. They were drawn to the strength of Warmaster Horus and welcomed the opportunity to test themselves against their brother Space Marines. Although they joined the Heresy the Alpha Legion stayed distinct from the other Traitor Legions and fought its own campaign."

- 3rd Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines (2002), p. 40

Though their description in the BL novel series is very different, the FW book did a great job reconciling their BL "super spy" theme with the original "martial pride" elements. Possibly we are going to see a sort of "reverse-Dark Angels", where the Legion sides with Horus but a significant part of the Legion opposes them.

This!

 

Has anybody read The Seventh Serpent?

[Emperor's Furor]

I have it's another good story that questions the Alpha Legion loyalities, more so than the previous ones.

[Xin Ceithan]

The Serpent beneath is quite good as well.