Flesh Tearers Vanguard Strike Force - Our Demi-Company?

[Charlo]

So I've been looking in SoB:E today, seeing if we do have any gems to compete with the Demi Company and Lions Blade etc.

 

While obviously we don't have the BS4 overwatch, objective secured, free transports or flexibility of auxiliary choices - we do have: 

 

The Flesh Tearers Vanguard Strike Force.

 

To Quote 1d4chan:

 

 

Flesh Tearers Vanguard Strike Force - 3 Tac squads, 1 Assault squad a Furioso Dreadnought and a Vanguard squad to finish it off. They all get The Red Thirst, but whilst the Vanguard squad is still on table, everybody has Stubborn and may ignore any penalties for disordered charges, which does pretty well for the Assaults.

 

In terms of Army building for BA - The Composition of this formation is similar to a Demi Company, but with a BA flair. 3 Tac Squads, a Dread, an Assault squad and a Vanguard to round it off instead of a Dev squad.

 

So, as BA, what do we like? Speed & Assault. What does this formation give us in spades? That's right baby, SPEED AND ASSAULT.

 

We get to have Red Thirst, (albeit in a bit of a more restricted manner than the BSF) which obviously combos well with our built in Furious Charge. Stubborn is very welcome, stopping us from Tactically Retreating in our advance, but that's not all - We've saved the best for last: We Ignore the Penalty for Disordered Charges. For us, I think this is huge: We get to surge forward in our fast transports/ pods, unload into the enemy and then charge multiple units while keeping our bonus S/I/A - perfect. Bonus points if you manage this with the Dread!

 

I think this formation let's us really flex our muscles as BA and do what we do best.

 

In short:

• Screw your Doctrine re-rolls - We do it right the first time.
• Screw your accurate overwatch - we take the fight to the xenos, mutant & heretic.
• Screw your free transports - Ours are faster than yours anyway!

Obviously this creates a few problems in army building as you don't have a HQ and such, but I think when you combine this with the FTSF (take a scout squad, priest and meltacide) or our other formations, we have more than enough options for whatever you want with this as a strong, mobile, offensive core ready to blitzkrieg the foe!

[Charlo]

86 views and no one agree's with me?! Come-aaaaaaan! 

[Helias_Tancred]

As someone building his Blood Angel force to ally with a shooty army I'm interested in this formation as something I could build towards in case I want to play a smaller match with just my blood angels. 

btw in which publication is this formation listed?

[Blindhamster]

once im done with my BA, i might use this for some actual flesh tearers - its a nifty formation to be fair.

 

however im pretty confident we'll see a new BA dex within the coming year, even though our last one will only be a year old in a couple months.

[Sanguine_Blood]

 

"however im pretty confident we'll see a new BA dex within the coming year, even though our last one will only be a year old in a couple months."

 

I want this to be true SO badly

[evildrcheese]

I not holding my breath to be honest. GW don't seem to have an obvious plan plan for codex releases, but I doubt we're high on the agenda.

 

Anyway, as for the matter on hand, interesting as it is, it doesn't particularly excite me. Mainly because the bulk of it is Tac Marines, so aren't exactly famed for their CC abilities...

 

Let's walk through the problems.

If gearing for assault (where the benefits of the formation are) you'll probably want max bodies, potentially weapon upgrades for the turn you drop (melta+H Flamer seem like the sensible choice) and vet/CC upgrade for the sgt. Now times that by 3.

 

Those guys won't want to walk, but since we lack a cheap assault vehicle we either have to pod them in, meaning that chances are they'll either get assaulted, thus won't benefit from any bonuses anyway or get shot to pieces/ enemy units move away.

 

Rhino faces a similar problem but you have to drive them up and then disembark before they get shot/ the enemy moves away.

 

To add insult to injury the bonus rules are only available whilst the VV are alive. So the one unit you want to throw into assault will most likely be high on the target priority list...

 

In conclusion, you'll be paying a whole lot of points for a whole lot if mediocre.

 

D

[Charlo]

While I do agree D, I also think we have some measures to make it useable.

 

The Heavy Flamer combined with a decent pistol, power weapon and veteran upgrade on the sarge help put the formation a lot. If you 5 man the Tac Squads in Pods but max the assault with jumps I think it works nice.

 

I see this as a cheap first wave used to suppress and entangle the enemy while the real threats move in. In the form of the rest of your force. Just laying down 3 heavy flamers, 3 grenades, 12 bolter shots and whatever fancy pistols you put on the sarges is cool. Even if you take some heavy casualties you can still just sacrifice what's left to hopefully tie up your opponents firebase.

 

Death wind on the pods too! Plus who's shooting Tacs when a furioso lands next to them? ;)

 

I'm probably being overly optimistic, but hey, why not.

[BadDice0809]

At first I was dismissive... but just threw together a list that also adds in that Death Storm Formation that actually looks pretty fun... the Tacts drop pod in and hold the line until the hammers- Cpt Karlean, a Terminator Squad, Cassius, that Ridiculous Death Company Squad, and your Vanguard Squad- mob up. No anti air, only CQC anti Tank but very assualt focused...

[Charlo]

At first I was dismissive... but just threw together a list that also adds in that Death Storm Formation that actually looks pretty fun... the Tacts drop pod in and hold the line until the hammers- Cpt Karlean, a Terminator Squad, Cassius, that Ridiculous Death Company Squad, and your Vanguard Squad- mob up. No anti air, only CQC anti Tank but very assualt focused...

 

That is actually a really fun list. Especially with Karlaen's ability to give the DC counter attack and everyone to re-roll wound one assault phase.

 

I do forget that as BA we have the option for a Troops Dread and DC squad. So fun.

[evildrcheese]

Perhaps I'm being too dismissive, tacs with counter attack are an improvement when podding, but you only get the +1A, no FC, +1I or ignore penalties.

 

The best thing about the formation is the potential from the dread...if that could be capitalised we'd be closer.

 

D

[Charlo]

Tacs don't get counter attack :( only DC for one turn with Karlean's ability!

 

The A stat on our Dread is the most depressing thing in our codex.

 

I can live with "inferior" scouts (FC is better anyway than BS/WS 4) - I can live with Expensive Terminators (what is 25 points in MSU? Plus you aren't taking them outside of formations...) - I can even live without squadded vehicles, ours are faster (except maybe Whirlwinds, would love a squad of those).

 

But Two base attacks on the marines who invented combat dreads, even on DEATH COMPANY ONES is just sad, sad, sad. Ironclads get what? 6 Attacks on the charge? Ridiculous.

 

Don't want to derail this though....

 

I think if you could house rules this to give the Tacs Obj Sec it would be pretty great. The argument for it would be that it is essentially a Vanilla Demi with a similar set of bonuses anyhow :)

[BadDice0809]

The Death Company always get counter attack in the formation. For one turn Captain Karlean gives everyone re rolls to wound (basically re roll ones for most instances). And everyone gets fearless...

[Red-beard]

It's not a bad formation. One thing that keeps it from being great is that it is comprised primarily of shooty tac marines yet the benefits deal specifically with assault. It would be much better if you could add DC or SG.

However, my biggest issue with it is that it's a Flesh Tearers' formation....I don't play Flesh Tearers.

[Helias_Tancred]

Tacs don't get counter attack only DC for one turn with Karlean's ability!

The A stat on our Dread is the most depressing thing in our codex.

I can live with "inferior" scouts (FC is better anyway than BS/WS 4) - I can live with Expensive Terminators (what is 25 points in MSU? Plus you aren't taking them outside of formations...) - I can even live without squadded vehicles, ours are faster (except maybe Whirlwinds, would love a squad of those).

But Two base attacks on the marines who invented combat dreads, even on DEATH COMPANY ONES is just sad, sad, sad. Ironclads get what? 6 Attacks on the charge? Ridiculous.

Don't want to derail this though....

I think if you could house rules this to give the Tacs Obj Sec it would be pretty great. The argument for it would be that it is essentially a Vanilla Demi with a similar set of bonuses anyhow

I've said this before and I doubt I'm the only one, but there needs to be an errata released by GW so that 4 attacks are across the board for all dreadnoughts. Same for the change on scouts. The new Space Marine Codex buffed two units that are fairly fundamental across all space marine chapters. To suggest that one or two chapter's dreadnoughts and scouts are sub-par is ridiculous at this point.

[Jolemai]

Tacs don't get counter attack only DC for one turn with Karlean's ability!

The A stat on our Dread is the most depressing thing in our codex.

I can live with "inferior" scouts (FC is better anyway than BS/WS 4) - I can live with Expensive Terminators (what is 25 points in MSU? Plus you aren't taking them outside of formations...) - I can even live without squadded vehicles, ours are faster (except maybe Whirlwinds, would love a squad of those).

But Two base attacks on the marines who invented combat dreads, even on DEATH COMPANY ONES is just sad, sad, sad. Ironclads get what? 6 Attacks on the charge? Ridiculous.

Don't want to derail this though....

I think if you could house rules this to give the Tacs Obj Sec it would be pretty great. The argument for it would be that it is essentially a Vanilla Demi with a similar set of bonuses anyhow

Death Company Dreadnoughts have three base attacks, but I know what you mean.

[Charlo]

The more you know!

 

@Red-beard while it is a FT formation, it is only in name. It's still just faction BA :)