Sanguine Wing

[Red-beard]

I've been working on assembling/painting my veteran models to make up a WYSIWYG Sanguine Wing formation.

 

I took them for a spin recently against Necrons and my army all but tabled the necron forces (everything was destroyed except 2 of his wraiths). Blood Angel 10-1 victory. My opponent wasn't bringing the cheese, but nonetheless, the Sanguine Wing performed well.

 

I've seen a lot of mathhammering reviews of this formation from people who haven't played it, but very little feedback from people who have actually fielded it.

 

So I'm curious, has anyone here on B&C been running this formation? Have you had success?

 

 

[dakkamasta]

I've run the sanguine wing a few times and with each time i use it i find myself wanting to use it even more. I used to combat squad the sternies and keep the VVs at 10 men with a sang. priest, but lately i prefer to skip on the priests and combat squad everyone. I like to put 3-4 melta bombs in each VV unit so that when combat squaded they have 1-2 per combat squad, that way each 5 man unit presents a big threat to both infantry and vehicles alike.

 

I usually equip the VVs with power swords (i don't like power axes) but lately I've been thinking about running them with power mauls. I think this would make them a lot more versatile and also give them a unique feature that we can't get with other units, especially since we have sanguinary guard for massed AP 3 weapons. Especially since you mentioned Necrons as we have a Necron player in our group and I've started to realise how much better power mauls can be against their units. Against warriors/flayed ones they're just straight up better, against wraiths and lychguard (with shields) theyre also better due to wounding on 2's on the charge and concussive for the wraiths, and since they have invul's the AP is irrelevant. Furthermore a bunch of str 7 attacks can severely damage any non AV 14 vehicle which further adds to their versatility. Against monstrous creatures its a mixed bag, since many have 3+ armour (ie Tyranids) while many have either 2+ or just have invul's, in which case the maul is superior for the same reasons as the wraiths.

 

As for the sternguard i find 10 combi-meltas just too good to pass up. I find they can take care of most forms of infantry with their special ammo so the meltas give them the ability to take on anything. I can also see the potential for 10 combi-gravs, or 5 of each. Plasma just doesn't seem that necessary for them when you could just take grav, and flamers can be dangerous but i find their special ammo to be effective enough against light infantry anyway.

 

How have you been running your veterans? I'd be very interested to hear your ideas as I've been really enjoying the playstyle of this formation and would like to see other players ways of running it.

[Red-beard]

I combat squad my veterans as follows:

 

5x sternguard w/ 4x combi-grav and 1x combi flamer

5x sternguard w/ 4x combi-melta and 1x combi flamer

5x vanguard w/ 2x power sword, 2x lightning claw, 1x power axe

5x vanguard w/ 2x power sword, 2x lightning claw, 1x power axe

5x vanguard w/ 2x power sword, 2x lightning claw, 1x power axe

5x vanguard w/ 2x power sword, 2x lightning claw, 1x power axe

 

Against the necrons, the lightning claws worked some magic. Shred really helps to wound against all the T5+ necron units (lychguard, praetorians, wraiths, tombblades, destroyers, C-tans, Spyders ) . My lightning claws were outperforming my power swords by a longshot. I can see how power mauls would be good, too. I didn't have the points for melta-bombs, but I like that idea. 

 

In the last game, I fielded my Sanguine Wing with an Archangels Strike Force that consisted of a tactical terminator squad w/ CML, three assault terminator squads (mixed TH/SS and LCs), and a lvl 2 terminator libarian. In all, I had 40 CC models with AP3/AP2 weapons and another 10 sternguard models and a SR for supporting fire. I started my tactical terminators with the CML on the board and deepstruck everything else (except the SR/sternguard, of course). Not much happened turn 1, but with all my models re-rolling reserves, in turn 2 all my units except for one terminator squad came in. I was fortunate and didn't mishap any of my deepstrikes. Turn 3 they all assaulted and wrecked face. By the end of turn 4, the game was decided and the final few rounds were really just mop up. 

[shaun03]

Combat sq VV but giving them all storm shields, they can tie up any unit the hit and survive fire there going to draw.

 

Mauls are hidden gem, BSF makes them even better. Axes are great no denying that, but with small units I rather hit first.

 

Attaching cpt kallen witb SG in raven can help boost the reserve rule, and lean some CC power to the unit should they need it.

 

One thing I been thing of fielding with SG is giving them all the storm bolters, and toss few power weapons. Yeah you lose special ammo, however they would put enough fire power to force saves than hit with CC. Is it ideal nope, but could be useful

[Red-beard]

The Sanguine Wing formation already allows re-rolls to reserve rolls, so I don't think Captain Karlaen would add any additional benefit. 

[dakkamasta]

I think stormshields would be a mixed bag for the VV depending on what army you're facing. Yes they become much more survivable against AP 3 or better, but that increases their point cost significantly, and they're still just as vulnerable to small arms fire. Don't forget they have to sit there for a turn and do nothing so by giving them all shields it will just make the opponent use their small arms fire to bring them down rather than their big guns which will be directed elsewhere. I've used 1-2 stormshields per unit to good effect in the past, but I just don't think all stormshields is a great idea, after all 20 stormshields is the same as 10 unupgraded Death Company.

[shaun03]

I forgot about the re roll.

 

It is a huge increase on points no doubt I mainly bring all shields for looks, if going use the wing in competitive setting I tone it down some to bring more of something else.

[timff8]

I'm currently looking at running this in a 2K list along with some min/maxed Tacticals and Assaults to bring rhinos and razors, plus another ASM squad with jumps for jump saturation. I like the idea of so much free gear and the reserves, but I've essentially been told that rhinos are dead and this formation are dead; you get shot to death too fast when you try to DS or use rhinos. Does anyone agree/disagree? I feel that podding can't be the only way to play BAs. No disrespect to the person that advised me against it, I just feel like this CAN be run somehow.

[dakkamasta]

BA can definitely be played without pods. I only have 1 drop pod which I only got recently so I always played with a jump/mech force. The key is saturation. Combat squad the veterans, that way you have 4 squads arriving from deepstrike (6 if you use skies of fury to get the sternguard out) and all of them are very well equipped to be very threatening. The other part of making this formation work is having more high threat units starting on the board. Rush some death company up the board so that once the veterans arrive the opponent has a difficult choice to make on target priority. Having strong fire support helps aswell to thin down the numbers before the formation arrives. Predators/vindicators/sicarans can all do decent damage early on. I used this formation with an Imperial Knight Crusader once and he was almost tabled by the 3rd turn.

[Red-beard]

I agree, you need to overwhelm your opponent with threats so they can't possibly shoot them all. Some of your guys will die before they get to assault, but the remaining forces should do quite well when they assault. 

 

Also, make use of cover saves if your opponent is sporting a lot of AP2/AP3.

[evildrcheese]

Yeah, SS are nice but too much of a points sink to justify giving them to the whole squad.

 

I agree that mauls are underrated, I use them regularly with my battle sisters/priests and the improved chance of forcing wounds is great (especially when I can make them ap2 with the War Hymns, but that's another story)

 

D