+ Legion Cultural Influences +

[Brother Heinrich]

Hey all, 

 

Just wanted to see if we could get a list going (based on general concensus) of what cultural and historic influences went into the design of each legion. I'll post a list below and update as the discussion continues. I've added a few that I think are fairly obvious, but feel free to contradict my choices if you've got a good case for something different. Cheers!

 

• I Legion - Dark Angels: Arthurian knightly ideals and chivalry as well as feudal European influence and the Templar Knight order. Ravenwing draws significant influence from the famed Polish Hussar Cavalry formations.

 

• III Legion - Emperor's Children: Inspired by the Byzantine empire, which stands in counterpoint to the Western Roman Empire. A larger degree of individualistic warfare and a larger emphasis on artwork and stylization in culture. There are definitely elements of the Italian renaissance as well with the Legion upholding art and the individual drive for perfection.

 

• IV Legion - Iron Warriors: Inspired by ancient Grecian culture and styles as well as the "City-State" model of governance that existed prior to the unification under Perturabo. Additionally their military strategies are heavily influenced by turn of the century warfare utilizing trenches, massed infantry assaults, and sustained artillery barrages. 

 

• V Legion - White Scars: Cultural influences stem largely from Asian Steppe cultures, primarily the Mongols with slight influences from other East-Asian cultures as well. 

 

• VI Legion - Vlka Fenryka: Clear influence from medieval Norse/Celtic culture.

 

• VII Legion - Imperial Fists: Influenced by Prussian culture and military traditions including the Teutonic knights.

 

• VIII Legion - Night Lords: Russian Mafia/Yakuza/Crime syndicate influence. Hierarchy based upon the ability and skill of a member as well as ritualistic tattooing which denotes everyones place in life, be it prostitute or crime boss. 

 

• IX Legion - Blood Angels: Styles and culture inspired by Italian renaissance but characterized by a counterpoint of literary influence in the form of Dracula and the "Vampire" mythos.

 

• X Legion - Iron Hands:

 

• XII Legion - World Eaters: Inspired by the Roman Gladiator culture with members being drawn from numerous different places with a wide degree of racial variation.

 

• XIII Legion - Ultramarines: Inspired by Roman Imperial culture and style.

 

• XIV Legion - Death Guard:

 

• XV Legion - Thousand Sons: Largely influenced by Ancient Egyptian stylization including scarabs, ankhs, and pyramids. Cultural influences stemming from the Alexandrian/Macedonian value placed on knowledge and the gathering of such. This is exhibited in the Legion tendencies as well as the copious number of Libraries in Tizca on Prospero.

 

• XVI Legion - Sons of Horus: 

 

• XVII Legion - Word Bearers: Possible Mesopotamian influences with cuneiform language and existence of ancient polytheistic religion. 

 

• XVIII Legion - Salamanders:

 

• XIX Legion - Raven Guard: Maori/Native-American influences in style as well as stealth tactics and guerilla warfare ideals.

 

• XX Legion - Alpha Legion: Primarily influenced by 21st Century Special Forces/CIA/Spetsnaz/KGB/SAS?MI6. Usage of operatives, informants, intelligence gathering, insurgent creation and advisement, and secrecy. Also utilizes large-scale force deployments, but only at the most advantageous time.

[The4thHorseman]

Blood Angels would have to be Italian/ Latin Influences featuring the Renassiance era of art and ideals.

[Emperor's Furor]

I'd say Dark Angels are Teutonic Knights.

[Slips]

I'd say Dark Angels are Teutonic Knights.

No, thats the Imperial Fists who additionally have Prussia in them.

 

DA are more of the Crusading Knights despite the IF getting the Templar.

[depthcharge12]

I'd say Dark Angels are Teutonic Knights.

I'd almost say Arthurian Knights as well.

 

I think that the Thousand Sons are more like the Alexandrian's with just some Egyptian motifs. I say this because the port city of Alexandria had a huge library prior to its destruction. I believe it also had a huge lighthouse as well, a sort of beacon (Magnus?).

[Marshal Rohr]

Imperial Fists are Prussian. Inwit is Space Prussia. They even had the Junker model of aristocratic behavior referenced in their IA article. The Black Templars are the Teutonic Knoghts. The Dark Angels are the Knights Templar.

[fool's idol]

Iron Warriors have some Persian/Iranian/Sassanid/whateveryoucallthem influences in the Stor-Bezash, which historically were the proffessionals dedicated to taking care of the horses in the Sassanid armies.

[Xin Ceithan]

Word Bearers always seemed mesopotamic to me. All those cuneiniform (sp.?) runes. I think ADB linked to Wiki entry regarding Mesopotamian asterology ob the chaos forums once.

 

For the Night Lords, I always envision 1920th Chicago or New York with Lots of Street Gang culture at low social end and organized crime in The High Society. Add theShadow, turn up Gotham. Film noir.

 

Thousand Sons have added a bit mesoamerican aztec-mayan flair to their palette ("Tlaloc")

[Olis]

 

I'd say Dark Angels are Teutonic Knights.

I'd almost say Arthurian Knights as well.

 

I'd be inclined to say they're closer to Arthurian rather than Teutonic.

[Emperor's Furor]

Probably got them mixed up my bad, I knew they were some sort of Knights :P

[helterskelter]

Night Lords are some kind of weird cross between Asian and the penal system/ gangland. There's kind of no singular historical reference. They're just gits. Some with each exotic sounding names. Heck jago is old cornish (as in Cornwall uk)

I go so far as to potentially sat yakuza as in those that do wrong are punished and not killed unless it's real bad ( red hands <\= cutting off fingers)

[Emperor's Furor]

Raven Guard at their earliest were recruited from the middle east, such as Afghanistan if I recall from their book entry, although their actual later appearance seems more Maori inspired. 

[Archidamus]

Arguably the Alpha Legion could said to be based on religion (The Alpha and the Omega stuff) with a mix of Heracles' mythology of the Hydra. 

 

I see the Imperial Fists with a bit of a Trojan era flare to them. What with Troy's walls never being breached for centuries. Sigismund does seem to fill a similar role to Hector as well as Achilles. With the Myrmidons being similar to the Templar's as the elite warriors of that age.

 

I agree with what Depthcharge says as well about the Thousand Sons having a Macedonian influence (Alexander's era). If you consider that the Thousand Sons do a lot of knowledge learning and integration it follows a similar vain to what Alexander did. Following on from this with Ptolemy's bloodline ending up with Cleopatra. I'd imagine a slight bit of Persia is in here as well. I believe the lighthouse was simply called the Great Lighthouse. 

 

Ultramarine's as well has having the Roman influence also have some from the Athenians. They pushed democracy and were head of Greek League, heck they even made an empire after the second war with Persia (before going a bit overboard and ending up in a war with Sparta).

 

Sons of Horus difficult to say. I'd like to say Carthage under Hannibal. Mostly when he took Rome down. You could draw a parallel to that and Horus taking down the Imperium. Obviously his name is principally Egyptian. So for some legions it isn't so simply cut and dry as largely there is a lot of ancient Greek, Egyptian and Roman stuff as a baseline.

 

 

[Zebulon]

Yes as Archidamus says there is a lot of mixing of historical traditions in many of the legions.

 

I wouldn't really say that any of the Legions had purely Ancient Greek influences which for me is a shame, but perhaps it is better for several of them to embrace aspects of that culture.

[Fire Golem]

Sons of Horus are also quite gang inspired too.

[Sandlemad]

Iron Warriors have some Persian/Iranian/Sassanid/whateveryoucallthem influences in the Stor-Bezash, which historically were the proffessionals dedicated to taking care of the horses in the Sassanid armies.

 

They also have repeated references to governing satrapies, a Persian (though also present under Alexander) region of governance.

 

The Iron Hands used to be identified by fans as having a hint of a Scottish theme, probably because of the presence of clans. Not sure much is visible beyond that though. Was there more to it than this?

 

Prussia and Rome are definitely the major influences on the Imperial Fists but there's also the strain of space-Eskimos due the Inwit sounding like, well, Inuit and it being an ice planet. Which is a pretty badass mix.

[Brother Heinrich]

So far really good points everyone, though I will say that just because something shares a name with something in our history, doesn't make it an influence. I'm more talking about structure, belief, and customs that come from our own historical past. For instance the independent nature and value of personal freedom present in the White Scars legion which can clearly be seen in Mongolian/Asian Steppe culture.

[Marshal Loss]

 

I agree with what Depthcharge says as well about the Thousand Sons having a Macedonian influence (Alexander's era). If you consider that the Thousand Sons do a lot of knowledge learning and integration it follows a similar vain to what Alexander did. Following on from this with Ptolemy's bloodline ending up with Cleopatra. I'd imagine a slight bit of Persia is in here as well. I believe the lighthouse was simply called the Great Lighthouse.

 

Sorry to be pedantic, but that is Hellenistic influence, not Macedonian. I can send you some academic journals on the topic if you like!

 

I also see no parallels between Carthage & the Sons of Horus

 

Some interesting posts, compiling a list of the background behind Primarch's names could prove useful for this purpose as well if somebody can be bothered typing it up

[Archidamus]

 

 

I agree with what Depthcharge says as well about the Thousand Sons having a Macedonian influence (Alexander's era). If you consider that the Thousand Sons do a lot of knowledge learning and integration it follows a similar vain to what Alexander did. Following on from this with Ptolemy's bloodline ending up with Cleopatra. I'd imagine a slight bit of Persia is in here as well. I believe the lighthouse was simply called the Great Lighthouse.

 

Sorry to be pedantic, but that is Hellenistic influence, not Macedonian. I can send you some academic journals on the topic if you like!

 

I also see no parallels between Carthage & the Sons of Horus

 

Some interesting posts, compiling a list of the background behind Primarch's names could prove useful for this purpose as well if somebody can be bothered typing it up

 

 

No it's fine merely trying to recall stuff I learned from sixth form some 4/5years ago. I just find it easier to say Macedonian even though to the Greeks they live in the barbarian parts of the northern area. I much prefer the peloponnesian War after all I took my name from one of the Spartan kings who did some ass kicking.

 

The Carthage was more based around the idea of Hannibal taking on Rome (sure it took a few attempts), with Rome being a representation of the Emperor's Imperium. I don't know enough about them to justify or explain it properly though. It's just when you compare the styles of fighting compared to the Roman Legions it would've seem more 'gang' like.  Was just a thought I had on the spot really. 

 

I guess you could argue across most legions their military styles and beliefs would probably have been based on Sparta (during the few hundred years it was a military power), the Myrmidons, possibly the Persian Immortals (not the 300 versions just so we're clear), and the Roman Legions (the most obvious one for pre-primarchs and Ultramarines). The easiest to draw direct would be the Spartans as their belief was that they were descended from Heracles sort of like the Astartes are descended from their Primarchs. Their society itself as well is similar somewhat to that of the Astartes. No imperfections (except psykers), trained from a young age, bonds of brotherhood, not afraid to die in combat due to the glory aspect. So as a foundation for most legions I could see it being the building block for most of their military beliefs. Obviously this changes once a Primarch is reunited with his Legion. 

 

However maybe back in the day when the Legions were first being created they were just based on things the designers at the time were into or liked like Corax and the Raven Guard having and Edgar Allan Poe vibe going on.  So for some maybe its less so history and more cultural influences of the time. 

 

If we take Da Vinci he like to design stuff. We learned that Perturabo likes to design stuff to. Maybe a bit of Archimedes thrown into that mix to. I'm sure someone else could make a more valid attempt than I.

[Brother Heinrich]

Additionally I would add these to the list:

Night Lords - Definitely Russian Mafia/Yakuza influences. The "Red Hands" punishment amongst the Legion to mark the member as living on borrowed time, is similar in to the scarring of an informant's face by Russian Mafia or the practice of Yubitsume (finger removal) by the Yakuza. These punishments retain the individual for future use while still marking them with failure and placing them on a proverbial "short leash". Additionally these organizations, especially the Yakuza, draw their recruits from orphans and rebellious youth, with a deliberate severing of any and all existing family ties. 

Sons of Horus - Less a historical influence and more of a popular one, the influence of Cthonia on the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus was reminiscent of the post-apocalyptic tribes of Mad Max. They live in the burnt our remnants of society, band together around strong leaders, and scrap for meagre supplies and sustenance.

[Soldier of Dorn]

Night Lords, at least to me, seem less to me like mobsters, as referenced earlier in this thread, and more like the Chinese triad or the yakuza with most of the blatant Asiatic influences taking out. The painting of the red hands feels very much like something that would originate in that part of the world, along with the idea of Nostraman as a sort of elaborate, highly contextualized language.

 

EDIT: Damn you Heinrich ;)

[Marshal Loss]

 

 

 

I agree with what Depthcharge says as well about the Thousand Sons having a Macedonian influence (Alexander's era). If you consider that the Thousand Sons do a lot of knowledge learning and integration it follows a similar vain to what Alexander did. Following on from this with Ptolemy's bloodline ending up with Cleopatra. I'd imagine a slight bit of Persia is in here as well. I believe the lighthouse was simply called the Great Lighthouse.

 

Sorry to be pedantic, but that is Hellenistic influence, not Macedonian. I can send you some academic journals on the topic if you like!

 

I also see no parallels between Carthage & the Sons of Horus

 

Some interesting posts, compiling a list of the background behind Primarch's names could prove useful for this purpose as well if somebody can be bothered typing it up

 

 

No it's fine merely trying to recall stuff I learned from sixth form some 4/5years ago. I just find it easier to say Macedonian even though to the Greeks they live in the barbarian parts of the northern area. I much prefer the peloponnesian War after all I took my name from one of the Spartan kings who did some ass kicking.

 

The Carthage was more based around the idea of Hannibal taking on Rome (sure it took a few attempts), with Rome being a representation of the Emperor's Imperium. I don't know enough about them to justify or explain it properly though. It's just when you compare the styles of fighting compared to the Roman Legions it would've seem more 'gang' like.  Was just a thought I had on the spot really. 

 

 

 

The Romans did believe that Hannibal had sworn as a child to destroy their city & a lot of classical writers presented it as their sins coming back to haunt them, so I suppose in that aspect it makes sense! At this point the Legions weren't the well drilled force they would later become under the Empire though, & the Carthaginians fought with Greek-style discipline, albeit with more exotic mercenaries (Elephants)

[Brother Heinrich]

+++Updated to this point+++

[Stofficus]

Emperor's Children have always had a bit of a Byzantine feel to me, which comes out I feel in comparison to the Ultramarines; both represent the most "parade ground perfect" legions, highly emblematic of the Imperium as a whole. The 3rd has that more decadent, more artistic, more gaudy aesthetic still drawing on the Roman tradition, which is the Byzantines in a nutshell; the decadent Greek continuation of the Roman Empire. 

The comparison has weight going to doctrine as well; the more individualist style of warfare the 3rd prefers fits the feudalization of the Eastern Roman military after the fall of the Western Empire, speed and precision over mass warfare (Byzantine cavalry armies versus Legions), and the constant focus on legends, history and prestige, being "primer inter paras" which was the chief Byzantine policy drive through the middle ages; recognition of their rightful position as the best nation in Europe, true Romans and king of kings. 

[Archidamus]

Iron Hands do have a bit of a nomadic influence to how they live on Medusa. From what I recall from Massacre they're constantly moving to find resources on their mobile fortresses. Not 100% sure on that.