+ Legion Cultural Influences +

[b1soul]

There was that old comic with an explicitly Native American (think Iroqois league) DA member...BL have not revisited that concept

[Excessus]

I see Alpha Legion like more than exclusively the NA special forces for sure...there are others out there in the world that do good work as well...

 

 

...gah, what was that book about the SAS that I forget the title of. It describes the SAS, like AL, valuing input from specialists regardless of rank in their planning meetings.

[Marshal Rohr]

The Alpha Legion isn't like SOF. It has SOF elements, but the majority of the legion is a conventional force.

[Skalpynock]

From what it's worth, the Iron Hands have some Celtic and northern European vibes: at least one Clan is named after a Gaulish tribe (the Avernii), their later Iron Council feels like a thing, the Terrans replaced their names with [medusan thing]-son (Meduson, Karaashison, Gorgonson), and Medusa seems to be almost as geologically unstable as Iceland (though this might be looking too far).

[Brother Heinrich]

The Alpha Legion isn't like SOF. It has SOF elements, but the majority of the legion is a conventional force.

In essence then it basically operates like the American military. CIA gathers intel, does a lot of shadow work, creates informants/cells, and provides advisors for local forces. Then when the time is right they bring the hammer in the form of the Marine Corps or Army mainstay units deployed via mechanized or airborne means.  

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

The Alpha Legion isn't like SOF. It has SOF elements, but the majority of the legion is a conventional force.

In essence then it basically operates like the American military. CIA gathers intel, does a lot of shadow work, creates informants/cells, and provides advisors for local forces. Then when the time is right they bring the hammer in the form of the Marine Corps or Army mainstay units deployed via mechanized or airborne means.

Exactly. Dynat led a mechanized assault on the IV at Paramar. I can't remember the last time the 1st Special Forces Armored Division fought the Taliban :D.

[Brother Heinrich]

+ Update to this Point +

 

Alright I've added some of the nuances we've discussed so far including a more general sprinkling of East-Asian influence on top of the mogol-themed White Scars, and the addition of large scale warfare to the Alpha Legion description. 

Still need some more concrete ideas for the Iron Hands, Salamanders, and Death Guard.

Sons of Horus feel like we're headed in the right direction with the Ostrogoth/Visigoth/Burgundian theme, but I don't know enough about the cultures to definitively say thats where their roots stem from. 

[Archidamus]

As a base point I can still see the Red Army being suitable for the Death Guard initially. Whilst chemical warfare is part of the Death Guard, it isn't particularly their main method of war. You can't really picture Garro flooding a city full of toxic gas just because he has a higher tolerance to it. 

 

The Red Army had sheer numbers of infantry assaults support by tanks and artillery. It's somewhat similar to the Death Guard. WW1 still fits in with the theme of going over the top, but that still fits much better with the style of the Iron Warriors. Obviously it still suits the Imperial Army as well. 

 

In fact nearly any army that focused on higher numbers of infantry attacks suits the Death Guard on the basis of their massed boots on the ground style. 

 

Edit: 

I think it would be best to have the Alpha's down as current special forces rather than just labeling them as American. As their are other countries who do that as well. Like Russia's former KGB and Spetsnaz, the UK's MI5 and SAS etc. 

[Marshal Rohr]

His point is tactical/theatre level integration. Not a proclamation that only the US has special forces...

[Fire Golem]

His point is tactical/theatre level integration. Not a proclamation that only the US has special forces...

No but other people have been saying they act like American special forces as though other SFs don't exist. Not a big deal really but I could see why people might feel a bit slighted or whatever.

[Archidamus]

His point is tactical/theatre level integration. Not a proclamation that only the US has special forces...

I didn't mean it as an offence, and i'm sorry if it came across like that. But it just covers all other possible influences on the Legion rather than having the appearance of one set. Some obviously don't fit, but if you take the story from Death and Defiance (I believe it was this book) that had the Alpha Legion infiltrate onto a titan legion's ship. They had no idea that Dynat was on a nearby planet. Not much in the way of integration in that particular mission. The Alpha Legion have shown on some occasions that they fight without integration of their brothers either due to the internal divisions or super awesome planning.  

 

The Sons of Horus for me though have a hint of US Army Rangers in them. Rangers lead the way, Sons of Horus lead with their speartip.

 

Edit: It was Sedition's Gate.

[Brother Heinrich]

Alright edited the AL post to reflect a broader spectrum of Special forces/Intelligence Agencies that all likely provided the influence for the Alpha Legion as we know them today.

 

I like the idea of the Death Guard being inspired by the Red army, especially since they don't do the trench thing so much as they just march into the teeth of enemy guns and die in their hundreds.

[Archidamus]

If you take what the Red Army did in it's initial part in the war it was all scorched earth tactics as they retreated and waited for winter. Burn everything down could be the inception idea for 'What if we made this more brutal. Oh I know let's make it chemical based!' Since aside from the retreating it is somewhat similar to how the Death Guard act.  

 

Edit: Maybe US Marines in the Pacific Theater as well? Since they'd be without armoured support due to the nature of where they were fighting. They had to use more infantry and infantry support tactics, as well as flamerthrowers. Just a thought. 

[Emperor's Furor]

I'd say the Death Guard could be World War 1 influenced, what with the trench warfare and gas.

[Sandlemad]

 

Sons of Horus feel like we're headed in the right direction with the Ostrogoth/Visigoth/Burgundian theme, but I don't know enough about the cultures to definitively say thats where their roots stem from. 

 

Not sure you're going to get much closer than that. You could, perhaps, take the approach that they are the active military force in the 30k imperium that are closest to the seat of power (not counting custodes here, too defensive) despite their barbarism. Then they are not just any particular non-Roman people but specifically barbarians in service to the emperor, just as the 'barbarian' soldiers and commanders who served Rome/Constantinople in late antiquity. 

The Hydra brought this up earlier in the thread but I think if you squint, Horus sort of fits the bill as a non-Roman general who decides to have a crack at the throne himself.

 

Slight change of tack but over on Warseer someone proposed a nice theory* that the SoH can be seen as a kind of metacommentary or throwback to the 1st ed. Rogue Trader idea of space marines being borderline psychopathic ex-gangers. In a sense, that means that the Warmaster's own legion represents GW's original concept for astartes, which I find cool and appropriate.

 

*which they may have sourced from someone at the B&C? Gah, can't find the post.

[Brother Heinrich]

I'd say the Death Guard could be World War 1 influenced, what with the trench warfare and gas.

I like the Red Army more than WW1 influenced. The Iron Warriors pretty much have lock on trench warfare and artillery sieges. Under their description in HH:Betrayal it says that their noted strategic tendencies are heavy infantry assaults, attritional warfare, hazard/death zone warfare, xenos eradication, and purgation operations.

 

The Death Guard may waste large amount of man power, however they still stay mobile. The implacable infantry advance is one of their noted tendencies and something that crops up time and time again.

 

The Iron Warriors will hunker down, shell someone to bits, then assault when the gates are breached. The Death Guard will just march at the enemy until one side or the other is dead.  

[Sandlemad]

 

I'd say the Death Guard could be World War 1 influenced, what with the trench warfare and gas.

I like the Red Army more than WW1 influenced. The Iron Warriors pretty much have lock on trench warfare and artillery sieges. Under their description in HH:Betrayal it says that their noted strategic tendencies are heavy infantry assaults, attritional warfare, hazard/death zone warfare, xenos eradication, and purgation operations.

 

The Death Guard may waste large amount of man power, however they still stay mobile. The implacable infantry advance is one of their noted tendencies and something that crops up time and time again.

 

The Iron Warriors will hunker down, shell someone to bits, then assault when the gates are breached. The Death Guard will just march at the enemy until one side or the other is dead.  

 

 

That's a very good example of how a legion's culture and a legion's aesthetics can be pretty divergent. Some of the main DG signifiers (the pickelhaube-style helmet, the gas masks, maybe the colour scheme to a degree) are very definitely WW1-inspired but the IW in this light are closer in their manner of waging war.

[Noserenda]

Barbarus seems to be a bit of a bastardised combination of Ravenloft/Fantasy Transylvania and Nepal with the legion noted as using Khukris is some fluff (Notably Deathfire recently). Style wise they definitely pinch from the WW1 Germans but the Gas/Destroyer themes are more a focus of Mortation than a culture exactly, though you could argue a homeworld covered in deadly gases would leave some scars in the psyche of the legion! :D

[Memento Of Prospero]

The Iron Tenth seems to me to mirror the German army during WWII. Best technology and armour available, highly mechanized force, and willing to do what it takes to win the day. 

[TennisBall]

Inwit, where Rogal Dorn grew up, is vaguely based on Eskimo culture. 

 

Eskimos call themselves Inuit and live in ice tribes like the natives of Inwit.

Inwit is an ice world so is basically a planetwide version of Nanavut, the region of Canada where Eskimos live.

 

Death Guard have a slight German connection. Their tactics and background is obviously based on gas and trench warfare of WWI. The German connection is the spike on the helmet based on the pickelhaube and possibly this:

 

Their earlier name of Dusk Raiders with their focus on attacking at night is similar to an ancient description of a German tribe called the Harii who were regarded as unusually strong and who'd paint themselves and their equipment black before attacking at night. The Harii have also been associated with the einherjar, warriors in Norse mythology who've died in battle but still fight, waiting for the final fight at the end of the world. They are thought to have worshipped Odin, the one eyed god (Magnus of the Thousand Sons shares a strong similarity to Odin). Rubric marines seem to have some basis in this myth too, particularly given the Magnus/Odin connection.

 

I think the Salamanders have taken on sub-saharan African culture in recent fluff, the earlier fluff is pretty much based on Greco-Roman fire cults. Salamanders, a type of reptile are not native to Africa other than a tiny strip along the Mediterranean coast. The European fire salamander has black skin (with yellow blotches) and is the most common type in Europe. The Egyptians had a hieroglyph for the salamander that represented a burnt man. 

[TennisBall]

I see Alpha Legion like more than exclusively the NA special forces for sure...there are others out there in the world that do good work as well...

 

 

...gah, what was that book about the SAS that I forget the title of. It describes the SAS, like AL, valuing input from specialists regardless of rank in their planning meetings.

Well, alpha is a letter of the greek alphabet (duh), and so is delta. I wonder if the name is based on Delta Force?

[Joeyray]

Whenever I read back over Angel Exterminatus and Forrix notes the complex calculations the legion use for seige warfare I detect an almost Clausewirltzian tone running through them.

[DuskRaider]

Iron Warriors aren't necessarily trench warfare per say, but particularly siege warfare. They are known for ripping down walls. Death Guard are known for trench warfare and purgation, it's stated in Betrayal. The reason I say WWI German / Prussian influence is not only some of the style but also they use chemical warfare more than any other Legion, they were called upon when either the enemy was using biological or chemical warfare or such a tactic was called upon, salt the earth as it were. I wouldn't even necessarily say the Red Army is a good pull for their traits, as the Red Army wasn't particularly well trained while infantry of the XIVth is one of the most well trained of any Legion. A Death Guard Legionnaire was trained to fulfill literally any role on the battelfield, from Sniper to Squad Sergeant to Comms. Can't use quantity as a deciding factor (especially as they were a medium to small sized army in comparison... 95,000 at the time of Isstvan III).

[Hyaenidae]

I'm putting this bloody Alpha Legion stuff to bed, right now.

 

The Alpha Legion is what would happen if SAS, U.S. Rangers, MI6, Senezh, Green Berets, KSK, 669 and SAD all started trying to work with each other on deliberate and clandestine missions.

 

Right now. No time to integrate. Matter of fact, create orders that seal cell from cell, and authorize Legionnaire production and indoc outside of Legion discretion.

 

This is the Alpha Legion. Lethal, to be sure, but a confusing hodgepodge of conflicting commands, and implied intent, worsened by lack of communication due to paranoia / discretion. 

 

In essence, they are inspired by every Special Forces and Clandestine Action group, from every nation on earth. And they get along just as well as you would think they would.

[DuskRaider]

One cell doesn't even know what the other cell is doing, you have a Primarch that MAY have an idea of cohesion between all of the various operations... you know, the ones his twin brother doesn't deliberately hide from him.