+ Legion Cultural Influences +

[1000 Sons]

Death Guard - They are the 'villainous' WW 1 German army with the Kaiser styled helms foot slogging in the fields and trenches using nefarious chemical weapons.  They could be nothing but the bad guys.  Maybe I am going out on a limb here but even thinking of Mortarion as a Kaiser Wilhelm figure who went to fight the 'good fight' with Horus to form a Triple Alliance type group.  The failure of Mortarion led the legion to embrace a new leader, far worse then any before; Nurgle, who follows the German abandoning the Kaiser for a new leader in the Nazi's.

 

Dark Angels - My one thought would be to remove the Arthurian influence in them, they are much for adversarial in the knightly houses and motives then the round table.

 

Salamanders - The Salamanders is where I would use the Arthurian influence, the complete desire, need and purpose to do the right thing.  Sacrificing themselves for the human race, and protecting the race is all that matters.  There is also a messianic, Christian  feel with the new HH books of the resurrected Leader serving the God-Emperor.  They are the definition of the pious hero bearing the burden (cross) of fighting for the down trodden.

[b1soul]

Perturabo gives me an Otto von Bismarck vibe

[GhostMalone]

I'd go Russia for the death guard climate wise it breeds stronger physical specimens since the land is barren and harsh which is reminiscent of barbarus.

 

But in saying that the Red army hate for tyrants yet leaders becoming tyrants seems to fit the XIVth pefectly

[Brother Heinrich]

I'd go Russia for the death guard climate wise it breeds stronger physical specimens since the land is barren and harsh which is reminiscent of barbarus.

 

But in saying that the Red army hate for tyrants yet leaders becoming tyrants seems to fit the XIVth pefectly

Thats a good point there as well Kurama

[GhostMalone]

I didn't want to get to involved as these threads usually go crazy but I would definitely push the XIVth into a Ukraine serbian Russian culture when it comes to geographical locales but even pre Mortarion they were a pretty extreme Legion if anything the Chem warfare element isn't the main focus.

 

Terminators massed Infantry assaults and Scorched Earth tactics are more they're style so think Russia marching into Berlin inflicting as much damage as they can in remittance force the devastation Germany layer on the east

[Marshal Rohr]

Death Guard - They are the 'villainous' WW 1 German army with the Kaiser styled helms foot slogging in the fields and trenches using nefarious chemical weapons. They could be nothing but the bad guys. Maybe I am going out on a limb here but even thinking of Mortarion as a Kaiser Wilhelm figure who went to fight the 'good fight' with Horus to form a Triple Alliance type group. The failure of Mortarion led the legion to embrace a new leader, far worse then any before; Nurgle, who follows the German abandoning the Kaiser for a new leader in the Nazi's.

So exactly what part of the toxin clouds, vast mountains ranges, lack of Industrialization, rudimentary level agricultural society, low technology level, tribe/village level political development is analogous to the industrialized, centralized Weberian state with an efficient bureaucracy, disciplined military, and vast wealth that was the Prussian led Germany of Kaiser Wilhelm, who also didn't have an absent vampiric father figure?

 

Ah, yes they have a spike on their helmet. Must be Germans. Must also be a Hitler parallel in there somewhere too.

 

Nor do the Death Guard have any parallels to the Russians, Imperial or Soviet. The Death Guard don't win battles by throwing men in the way of bullets or waiting for their best general (who is also a season, not a person) to show up when attacked. They didn't spend the early years as a legion hiring out their officer corps or running away from the Swedes.

 

The Death Guard, like the Imperial Fists, have many real world inspirations that can be used to flesh out your own view of them. The objective FW based fluff describes a tribalistic (as almost all the traitors were) culture on Barbarus, and their military doctrines focus in the overwhelming application of force, above and beyond conventional methods, segregating them from the other legions. A reading of Book 4 makes it clear the Death Guard has just as much in common with the armies of angels sent to wipe out civilizations by God as the do with any real world parallel. They are the implacable legion of death before and after their corruption.

[DuskRaider]

All I said is tactically they were reminiscent of WWI Germany, not culturally.

[Marshal Rohr]

All I said is tactically they were reminiscent of WWI Germany, not culturally.

Which is why I quoted an entirely different person. So everyone would know I wasn't coming down on you.

http://i.imgur.com/6g1HQT8.gif

[DuskRaider]

I love you.

[1000 Sons]

 

Death Guard - They are the 'villainous' WW 1 German army with the Kaiser styled helms foot slogging in the fields and trenches using nefarious chemical weapons. They could be nothing but the bad guys. Maybe I am going out on a limb here but even thinking of Mortarion as a Kaiser Wilhelm figure who went to fight the 'good fight' with Horus to form a Triple Alliance type group. The failure of Mortarion led the legion to embrace a new leader, far worse then any before; Nurgle, who follows the German abandoning the Kaiser for a new leader in the Nazi's.

So exactly what part of the toxin clouds, vast mountains ranges, lack of Industrialization, rudimentary level agricultural society, low technology level, tribe/village level political development is analogous to the industrialized, centralized Weberian state with an efficient bureaucracy, disciplined military, and vast wealth that was the Prussian led Germany of Kaiser Wilhelm, who also didn't have an absent vampiric father figure?

 

Ah, yes they have a spike on their helmet. Must be Germans. Must also be a Hitler parallel in there somewhere too.

 

Nor do the Death Guard have any parallels to the Russians, Imperial or Soviet. The Death Guard don't win battles by throwing men in the way of bullets or waiting for their best general (who is also a season, not a person) to show up when attacked. They didn't spend the early years as a legion hiring out their officer corps or running away from the Swedes.

 

The Death Guard, like the Imperial Fists, have many real world inspirations that can be used to flesh out your own view of them. The objective FW based fluff describes a tribalistic (as almost all the traitors were) culture on Barbarus, and their military doctrines focus in the overwhelming application of force, above and beyond conventional methods, segregating them from the other legions. A reading of Book 4 makes it clear the Death Guard has just as much in common with the armies of angels sent to wipe out civilizations by God as the do with any real world parallel. They are the implacable legion of death before and after their corruption.

 

Didn't mean to hit a nerve.  If you are going to go to the extent of comparing the legion worlds to earth topology, levels of industrialization, agricultural farming habits, village life etc. is ridiculous, the post is looking for cultural themes.  No legion world is a cut and paste of earth history, but generalizations.

 

I am not the first to mention it, but the bucket helmet with a spike on it is a german cultural theme of ww1 uniform.  Tizca had pyramids on it and everyone said 'ohh that's Egypt' because it is a cultural theme.  There are no Egyptians saying 'just because it is a pyramid it has to be Egyptian?'   Most agree that the Ultramarines are a Roman influence not because they have a vibrant slave trade and crush the civilizations they conquer, but because of the general theme of the glorious army that spreads education and civilization to the wild worlds.

 

I still feel the general theme of the death guard does line up with the ww1 germans.  Same hats, chemical warfare , flawed and failed leader, and mainly they both fill the 'bad guy' role.

 

[Relict]

The Terran Raven Guard reminds me of the Afghan Mujahideen during the Soviet Invasion. 

 

- The Terran members of the Raven Guard were recruited from the "Asiatic Dustbowl." A not-so-subtle hint to Central Asia.

- The native tribesmen of the region were noted to have repeatedly taken on the forces of their much larger neighbors, the same way Afghans have fought the ambitions of the British and Russians alike. 

- The Raven Guard favors strike-and-fade tactics, much like the Afghan guerrillas during the Soviet Invasion. 

- On Isstvan V, the craggy wasteland that the Raven Guard retreated into after the massacre are described as something similar to mountainous Afghanistan. 

- The Raven Guard's actions against the Iron Warriors armored columns are almost play-by-play of the ambushes that the Afghans carried out against Soviet convoys and such. 

[DuskRaider]

I don't necessarily equate Death Guard with bad guys, to be honest. Pre-Heresy they were seen as the epitome of perseverance against the horrors the universe had to offer. Courage and honor made flesh. They didn't enjoy their role in the Imperium, as was shown in Flight of the Eisenstein, but they accepted it nonetheless.

[Hyaenidae]

I always assumed the Heresy Era Death Guard was inspired by All Quiet On The Western Front. 

[TennisBall]

Ah, yes they have a spike on their helmet. Must be Germans.

It seems obvious that the WWI pickelhaube was the inspiration for the spike. It also seems likely that Barbarus was an extension of the blasted wasted landscape that existed on the Western front - gas warfare transformed into a death world filled with poisonous air. 

The Death Guard, like the Imperial Fists, have many real world inspirations that can be used to flesh out your own view of them. The objective FW based fluff describes a tribalistic (as almost all the traitors were) culture on Barbarus...

Of course most of the legions came from tribal backgrounds - Scars have tribes, natives of Inwit had tribes, people of Fenris had tribes, Medusa had its clans, Caliban had rival knightly orders, Raven Guard were recruited from tribes on Earth...tribal type societies seem the most common for loyalist and traitor legions.

[Plasmablasts]

Going back to the "Barbarian Auxiliaries in late Western Roman Empire" theme for the SoH, the warrior lodges resemble the cults, e.g. Mithraism, that became popular among the Roman Legions. They were imported (from Persia?/from the XVII), secretive and, iirc, ignored the normal military hierarchies.

[Legatus]

Not all Legions have a strong historical cultural theme. Such a theme is most developed for the "big four" Chapters who got their own Codex in 2nd Edition and thus a lot of early development. Most of the other Original Legions had a distinct thematic cue like "bionics" or "fire + reptilian", that is not necessarily tied to any specific culture from out history.

 

Especially the traitor Legions, which were defined first in the 2nd Edition Codex Chaos, with only a small blurb of text to describe each of them (though some had already been briefly described in the Realm of Chaos books). What was more important for the design of the traitor Marines was the visual cues. World Eaters are blood/death worshippers with snarling/grimacing helmets and have a general theme of "violence", Emperor's Children are into extreme body modification/mutilation and have a theme of "abuse". The Death Guard is reminiscent of WW1 gas warfare with their "gas mask" stye helmets complete with prussian spike. The Thousand Sons have a theme of ancient/esoteric/strange magic, which since the earliest models took the form of egyptian crests and patterns. The Iron Warriors are themed after crude military industrialisation, the Night Lords after a (somewhat generic) theme of "horror", with skulls, chopped of heads, blood, bats, lightning (all that's missing is the pumpkin). The Word Bearers are occultists and daemon worshippers, with flames, scrolls/books, daemonic imagery. The Alpha Legion have a simple reptilian theme. The Black Legion has a theme of, well, "black". They are a somewhat generic evil black armoured faction, being slightly more dedicated and "elite" than the other Legions.

 

The White Scars are really the only First Founding Chapter that got a clear cultural theme in their treatment, probably because it went well with the theme of mounted warfare GW had decided on. During their development of the Index Astartes articles GW seemed determined to give each Chapter/Legion it's own gameplay niche, whereas for the initial "big four" loyalists and the Traitor Legions that had not so much been a consideration. So Legions like the Imperial Fists, the Raven Guad, Iron Hands, Salamanders, Night Lords and Alpha Legion are defined more by their specific organisation and tactics, rather than necessarily a strong visual or cultural theme.

[Zebulon]

Seems to me that people's idea that Salamanders are Africans is based purely on their skin, even though we know that is down to the characteristics of their homeworld.

 

The predominant characteristic of Salamanders is craftsmanship; that puts me in mind more of Celts or Saxons or other early European tribes. That would also explain the fascination with dragons (yes Salamanders irl are lizards but the representation in the fluff is generally closer to that of dragons).

[Joeyray]

Perturabo gives me an Otto von Bismarck vibe

Would you care to elaborate, brother?

[b1soul]

I am really not seeing the DG / Germany or Soviet similarities.

 

On the other hand, Mongols White Scars, Knights Templar DA, Romans Ultramarines, Norsemen Space Wolves...yeah, I see that

[Marshal Rohr]

Someone is also going to have to explain to me how Inwitans are space Eskimos when forge worlds latest background has them living in Hive Cities, rules by noble houses, have a social morality actually called the Junker model, a tendency to fight ritualized sword duels, a professional military, and an empire in space.

 

Is it because Inwit is cold?

[Fire Golem]

Someone is also going to have to explain to me how Inwitans are space Eskimos when forge worlds latest background has them living in Hive Cities, rules by noble houses, have a social morality actually called the Junker model, a tendency to fight ritualized sword duels, a professional military, and an empire in space.

 

Is it because Inwit is cold?

And because Inwit is close to Inuit, duh.

[Marshal Rohr]

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/inwit

 

 

It's also apparently a word to describe inner knowledge.

[depthcharge12]

At least the planet wasn't called Dimwit and was full of derp :P

 

I do prefer when legions have subtle influences rather than shoving it down your throat. It makes things mere ambiguous.

[Marshal Rohr]

The more ambiguous, the more options.

[b1soul]

Inwitians are nothing like "space Eskimos"...Inwit is very cold and there are large ice bears roaming around in the ice wastes I believe. That's about where the Eskimo similarities stop