+ Legion Cultural Influences +

[GhostMalone]

Come on guys, the Iron Hands come from a world with a harsh environment, are focused on the acquisition and use of advanced technology, and live in large mobile fortresses when on their home world. They're obviously based on Jawas.

Just lost my :cuss with this one I'm in hysterics

[Legatus]

Early 20th century German culture does not permeate the Death Guard legion. I would argue that the DG share almost zero cultural similarities with WWI Germany. 

 

Using poison gas is a battlefield tactic...not a cultural element 

The helmet spike is a very superficial similarity limited to the visual appearance of uniforms/armour

 

At most you could say, SW are very heavily based on Vikings...whereas DG are very loosely based on WWI Germany

 

 

The visual design of the Plague Marines was developed in 1991. For the following ten years, nothing else was known about the Death Guard other than the look of their Marines and that they spread the plagues of Nurgle. Then, in 2002, a chap who was working for GW from 2002 to 2003 wrote an Index Astartes article for them.

 

From 1991 to 2002 all that was known about the Death Guard was "spiked helmets, gas masks, gas warfare".

[b1soul]

You could liken DG to WWI Germans...all I am saying is that the Viking inspiration behind the SW is much deeper and much less disputable than the questionable German inspiration behind the DG.

 

Maybe very early on, all legions/chapters lacked fluff...but that hasn't been the case for the past 12-15 years. Saying DG:Germans is as SW:Vikings is pretty misleading without stating very specific qualifiers

[Vesper]

The difference is notable. Space Wolves are based on vikings, leading to them being vikings in space when the DG isn't defined by WWI trench warfare, it's just a vibe they carry around.

[Legatus]

The big four had the benefit of being developed in the later years of 1st Edition. For the remainder of the loyalist Chapters and for the traitor Legions that was not the case. Hence why the cultural hooks are not as easy to make out in the other Legions, with the exception of the blatant White Scars theme.

 

What those other Legions had were either distinct visual elements or other simple thematic cues like "bionics" or "industrial".

 

Similar to Death Guard being based in WW1 germans not because of their resilience but because of their visual design, the Thousand Sons are not associated with egypt because of some pyramids on a 2010 book cover, but because of their 1991 design.

 

The Death Guard was not intended to represent a futuristic version of the early 1900s german kaiserreich, but their design was intended to evoke the dread of 1916 trench-gas-warfare, specifically the vile aggressor of that setting. The Thousand Sons were not intended to represent a 40K equivalent of the egyptian civilisation. Their style was meant to present a foreign and esoteric, yet in strange ways sophisticated and advanced class.

 

 

The OP's question was "what cultural and historic influences went into the design of each legion".

 

I am not sure any particular earth culture was the specific model for the description of life on Barbarus or the customs of the Death Guard. But I am quite positive where their visual aesthetics came from.

[TennisBall]

 

Their helmets are the main distinct design cue the Death Guard has had for years. They didn't have any specific culture or heritage that was described in their background. "Gas war" is literally their core theme. And one prevalent detail for plague Marines is the helmet spike.

 

Saying the Death Guard is based in WW1 germans is as obvious as saying Ultramarines are based in the roman army, Space Wolves are based on Vikings, Dark Angels are based on gothic monastic orders, etc.

 

No...it is not.

 

Viking culture permeates the Space Wolves legion

 

Early 20th century German culture does not permeate the Death Guard legion. I would argue that the DG share almost zero cultural similarities with WWI Germany. 

 

Using poison gas is a battlefield tactic...not a cultural element 

The helmet spike is a very superficial similarity limited to the visual appearance of uniforms/armour

 

At most you could say, SW are very heavily based on Vikings...whereas DG are very loosely based on WWI Germany

 

Superficially they are based on WWI Germans.

 

I will also repost what I mentioned earlier about them:

 

Their earlier name of Dusk Raiders with their focus on attacking at night is similar to an ancient description of a German tribe called the Harii who were regarded as unusually strong and who'd paint themselves and their equipment black before attacking at night. The Harii have also been associated with the einherjar, warriors in Norse mythology who've died in battle but still fight, waiting for the final fight at the end of the world. They are thought to have worshipped Odin, the one eyed god (Magnus of the Thousand Sons shares a strong similarity to Odin). Rubric marines seem to have some basis in this myth too, particularly given the Magnus/Odin connection.

[b1soul]

The difference is notable. Space Wolves are based on vikings, leading to them being vikings in space when the DG isn't defined by WWI trench warfare, it's just a vibe they carry around.

Thank you for summing up my point in simple terms

[M@verik115]

Luna wolves to me scream Carthage mixed with late Roman elements. 

[Icarus1138]

Just to clean up the description of the 3rd Legion, their influence is all Greek. The coloration, insignia, and (arguably) their slide into decadence come from the Byzantine Empire as noted, which was the Greek continuation of Rome. Their focus on individual perfection and strong interests in the artistic and philosophical sides of civilization come from Classical Greece. Interestingly enough, Chemos isn't described in any way evocative of Greece. Which is a reminder that when we talk about "behind the scenes" influences, the homeworld isn't everything.

 

The Iron Hands don't pull from a specific real-world culture, they come from the stereotypical idea that people that really like technology will become more robotic and machine-like themselves. They're Transhumanists, seen in a dystopian light as many other things are in the 40k setting. I do like the "culturally primitive, technologically advanced" vibe they have, I'm not sure where that comes from. They've always reminded me of what would happen if the Brotherhood of Steel recruited exclusively from raiders.

[Marshal Rohr]

The 3rd Legion has Greek elements, but it's not ALL Greek.

[depthcharge12]

The 3rd Legion has Greek elements, but it's not ALL Greek.

I agree, they have some late Roman vibes.

[Naram-Sin]

Every Legion grab inspiration from so many different sources that is difficult to make a good summon. Some are more obvious, some more subtle...the Iron Warrios take elements from the cities state of arcaic-classic Greece that's true but as some member write before they take others from some cultures of the Near-Middle East as persians and in my opinion from the assiryans:  rentless in war, the first to use mass of soldiers to do the job, masters of the siege warfare, heck they were the first army in the world to have a corp of military engineers...

And also from Italian Renaissance :

Perturabo is Leonardo da Vinci in space and the acrimony of the cities of Olympia towards each others sounds very like that of the italians cities of the period(ah my poor country's history: so strong in culture and science but so fragile in the  heart...)

[Icarus1138]

 

The 3rd Legion has Greek elements, but it's not ALL Greek.

I agree, they have some late Roman vibes.

 

 

 

Late Roman vibes, absolutely. We're saying the same thing though, the late Roman Empire was Greek. They spoke Greek, the capitol was in Greece, and nearly all their territory was either in Greece, or in lands conquered by Alexander with a strong Hellenistic influence (Anatolia, Egypt, etc). Remember, the Rome-ruled, Latin-speaking portion of the Empire ended a thousand years before the Greek portion did.

 

ALL Greek was a slight exaggeration, the Phoenicians are referenced as well for example, both in Fulgrim's nickname and the use of their signature color for the Legion (a color also used by the ERE). Still mostly Greek though.

[Marshal Rohr]

The Eastern Roman Empire is not what he is referring to (at least I don't think). The Late Roman Empire, in this context is still the Western Roman Empire, centered in Rome. The III Legion draws from high Roman Culture, in caricature. The ostentatiousness, the orgiastic cultural excess, the pursuit of higher forms of perfection. Martial tradition for the III Legion is still heavily influenced aesthetically by the Roman Military, not the Byzantine.

[Zebulon]

Nobody wants to discuss the Sallies then?! :(

[CaptainStabby]

Nobody wants to discuss the Sallies then?!

Clearly Dragon culture. Duh. :D

[Zebulon]

Haha!

 

Well yeah, so Celts or the Far East, but I reckon the former due to all the master-crafting hammer and anvil stuff.

[TennisBall]

Haha!

 

Well yeah, so Celts or the Far East, but I reckon the former due to all the master-crafting hammer and anvil stuff.

Vulcan is the Roman god of fire and volcanoes, he is also a smith god.

Prometheus was a Greek titan that gave fire to humans as he felt kindly towards them. He was punished for this by being chained to a rock and having his liver eaten by an eagle each day. He was immortal so every night his liver grew back.

 

Nothing Celtic about the Salamanders (or Space Wolves for that matter).

[Zebulon]

You're right, I clean forgot about the Vulcan/Prometheus aspect.

 

However I don't see the Salamanders as being culturally "classical" - certainly far less so than some of the other Legions, and especially in comparison with UM and EC.

[Marshal Rohr]

Aesthetically, the Salamanders have their own look not tied to any real world example, like the Blood Angels, Night Lords, and Alpha Legion. Culturally, they are more like fantasy fire worshippers than any real world culture.

[Brother Heinrich]

Aesthetically, the Salamanders have their own look not tied to any real world example, like the Blood Angels, Night Lords, and Alpha Legion. Culturally, they are more like fantasy fire worshippers than any real world culture.

Yeah I've noticed they seem to be the ideal paragons of humanity. Unfortunately every real world example of a culture that stylized itself as being exemplars of humanity falls flat under close scrutiny. There are moments throughout history where the strong have sacrificed themselves to protect the weak, but just as often the same cultures burned whole villages, massacred populations, or dropped Napalm on civilians.

[b1soul]

Lucius, Julius, Marius...along with their aesthetic and decadence smacks of late Western Roman Empire, not Byzantine or Eastern Roman Empire.

 

Classical Greek shares more similarities with Imperial/Western Roman civilisation, than it does eith Byzantine Greek. I woildn't conflate the two into a single Greek inspiration

 

I'm not even sure if Byzantine is the same as Eastern Roman Empire. It seems to.me that the Eastern Roman Empire eventually became the Byzantine Empire.

[GhostMalone]

Hmmm I was thinking could Mesopotamia be attributed to the 3rd ancient art and culture I sort of see Fulgrim Like gilgamesh the king of uric part Devine and separate from humanity always to judge and live in pursuit for life's pleasures from gold to wine women etc

[Phalanx Warder]

So a change of pace.

The VII Legion I would argue have some of the traits of the Hussites of the Czech Republic, all you have to do is a Google image search for "Kutna Hora bone church". Though not exactly "scrimshawing" the hussite veneration for the bones of the dead is a definite parallel to the Fists.  

[b1soul]

Hmm...I thought the UM embodied Roman discipline and organization whereas EC embodied Roman decadence and excess.

 

Pre-Heresy EC seemed like Roman patricians