I did a Dark Angel Inventory....

[Prot]

So I sold off a ton of stuff....

 

Today I did an inventory of 'new' stuff that I still had. Now I already have a large, and growing Ultramarines Battle Company so I have very little interest in Green wing overall, but now that the dust has settled a bit and I assume it's 'calmer' in here, what do you guys think of just Termie/Bike combo lists?
 

I still found in my early games with the new codex the mix and not the pure lists of Deathwing and Ravening had some fantastic potency. Is anyone doing this? 

 

I'm just sitting on something like 2 boxes of Deathwing, 2 boxes of Ravenwing, a few misc bikers, and 2 speeders. It's enough that it could be the core of something decent I suppose, but I'm not looking to buy vanilla marines anymore as Ultra has robbed me of any enthusiasm to ever paint another razorkback or marine. 

 

What are you guys liking now?

[Bomber]

Ravenwing is still the best support for no scatter Deathwing assault. Rerolling jinks on books also makes them very survivable. Terminators still struggle with volume fire but dropping them exactly where you like helps.

 

The are very few ways to play Dark Angels wrong right now aside from poor lists. I'm looking at rounding out a Battle Company for the free transports. Though that means I'll be spending money I'd rather not lol I have Deathwing and Green Wing but no assault marines and few vehicles since 6th was hard on them. Ah well the nature of GW's beast

[Malakithe]

I love my deathwing. I have a DWSF+RWAS+RWSS being built up. A bit lower on the model count but should still be fun.

 

I'm also wanting to make a lion's blade with a single demi+DWRF+RWSS. That has a healthy mix of infantry with some light vehicles. Good amount of firepower too.

[Master Avoghai]

I personnaly run 2 attack squadrons with 5 bikes 2x grav guns, one attack squadron contains 1 Typhoon the other one contains 2 typhoons.

 

Then I use a DW strike Force containing one level 2 librarian, 2 squads with CML, one squad with AC and one DW kignts squad.

 

I find this list running well and offering lots of possibility to be modified to change the taste. For exemple, I can drop on of the typhoon to transform the AC squad into a command squad. I can also drop one of the attack squadron to iclude one more termi squad.

 

Why do I prefer the RWAS over a RWSF? because it gives a scout move to the LS and allow to deep strike with 12" instead of 6" and the 12" radius can be from the LS too.

 

I haven't teste the RWSS but I'm dubious about it in a DW heavy army : you cannot use any of the speeder not to scatter and it represent a load of points.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

DW and RW is liek bread and butter. You can eat them on their own but they are more tasty together.

[Cactus]

I personnaly run 2 attack squadrons with 5 bikes 2x grav guns, one attack squadron contains 1 Typhoon the other one contains 2 typhoons.

Is that a house rule? The unit of land speeders in the Attack Squadron can't be larger than 1 model.

To answer Prot's question I think a combination of the Deathwing Strike Force and one or more Ravenwing Attack Squadrons has a lot of potential. The psychological factor of dropping 20 terminators is still there but now they do it up to 12" from the Ravenwing models and they run and shoot (twin-linked ). Use it now while it still has a chance to surprise people.

[Prot]

You know I ran this when the codex first dropped.

 

It was so strong, the only thing I backed it up with was trying to get that cheezy snapfire power off with my Psyker Libby... just devastating.

 

I have to confess one Astra player packed up his army and he hasn't played them since. 

 

I remember some guys in the forum arguing that putting termies within 12" of the RW attack squad was no big deal. It was so good.... it gave the Astra guy one turn to blow me away.... and that's all he got. Aversion took care of his nastiest stuff. Aversion on his command tank squad was so potent, and then he still had to deal with 20 termies.

 

But a lot of people were saying it was a poor tactic, a poor part of the codex. But if people are still using it, it can't be that bad.

[Master Avoghai]

 

 

I personnaly run 2 attack squadrons with 5 bikes 2x grav guns, one attack squadron contains 1 Typhoon the other one contains 2 typhoons.

 

Is that a house rule? The unit of land speeders in the Attack Squadron can't be larger than 1 model.

Nope ... Just that I haven't noticed the restriction :D

 

@ Prot : I don't kno who said that 12" instead of 6 is no big deal, but I guess he actually never played it. Or he played it on a board with few sceneries and lots of lines of sight. So indeed, if your opponent can shoot at you turn 1, there's no big deal getting 6 or 12,since you're dead...

The cool thing is that it gives scout AND a 12" radius to the LS too which is great...

[Frater Cornelius]

So, what is the advantage of using DW with RW over pure RW. DW seems more like a hindrance, although a very stylish one.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

So, what is the advantage of using DW with RW over pure RW. DW seems more like a hindrance, although a very stylish one.

 

To answer that, I'll quote Prot:

 

I remember some guys in the forum arguing that putting termies within 12" of the RW attack squad was no big deal. It was so good.... it gave the Astra guy one turn to blow me away.... and that's all he got. Aversion took care of his nastiest stuff. Aversion on his command tank squad was so potent, and then he still had to deal with 20 termies.

 

 

With DW in a RW army you actually have punch in Close combat, plus you present an immediate threat that the opponent can't ignore, in the meantime, bikes do their thing and cover DW. Will it work every single time, perfectly? No, but this is still a marine codex,so it will have the limitations Xenos don't seem to have.

[Prot]

I personnaly run 2 attack squadrons with 5 bikes 2x grav guns, one attack squadron contains 1 Typhoon the other one contains 2 typhoons.

Is that a house rule? The unit of land speeders in the Attack Squadron can't be larger than 1 model.

Nope ... Just that I haven't noticed the restriction

@ Prot : I don't kno who said that 12" instead of 6 is no big deal, but I guess he actually never played it. Or he played it on a board with few sceneries and lots of lines of sight. So indeed, if your opponent can shoot at you turn 1, there's no big deal getting 6 or 12,since you're dead...

The cool thing is that it gives scout AND a 12" radius to the LS too which is great...

- It was the Jeske. I don't mind admitting we are on entirely different planets when it comes to 40K. I'm not saying his opinion is wrong, just different than my own on most things 40k. I always respect other's opinions but I've learned that in order to trust my own, I always put them to test in real world scenarios, (on the table top in lots of settings in the case of 40K).

And yes, it's a significant radius and GW knows how this empowers the DW... they pretty much tell you to use this with the detachment.

- Adding Belial to this was something I was reluctant to do as I still feel he is personally underpowered for his role in the Chapter, BUT I've since accepted it is his role to be a force multiplier and that's his thing.

So, what is the advantage of using DW with RW over pure RW. DW seems more like a hindrance, although a very stylish one.

- I can't add much to what Lucifer says, but I will say on a personal note I always enjoy trying to make something work that the community has largely accepted as 'bad' or ineffective. I just don't think in this case what the combo does appears largely significant until you play around with it a bit. Plus people are so used to hating on DW it just seems easier to write them off and put all your bikes on the table. Until Tau come out, I find this to be extremely boring for myself.

[Master Avoghai]

- It was the Jeske. I don't mind admitting we are on entirely different planets when it comes to 40K. I'm not saying his opinion is wrong, just different than my own on most things 40k. I always respect other's opinions but I've learned that in order to trust my own, I always put them to test in real world scenarios, (on the table top in lots of settings in the case of 40K).

Yup and that's why i talked about the scenery issue.

 

I've discovered that lots of discussion about the effectivness of a unit/special rules starts with the false assumption that we all play on equivalent tables...

I personally play on tables with 25% covered with ruins. Half of those are minimum as tall as 2 models...

This changes lots of issue concerning charging and mobilities of units..

[Prot]

That's a really good point. It can be something as simple as how we set our tables up that can vastly change our experiences, and then our opinions. It's all relevant.

 

I respect everyone's take on it, and I personally enjoy seeing how different it can play out for other people/meta's.

 

I know I post a lot of my games on the various forums here, just did a chaos one, an ultra one, and lots of Grey Knights... Anyone can see from those we have a strong presence of terrain on those tables.

[Frater Cornelius]

@ Prot - I know what you mean. I mean, I am rocking Paladins against Grav and Plasma armies ;) However, at least I have flexibility in how I use GK TDA in most scenarios. DW feel limited, especially since they have no alternate mode of mobility like Gate and arrive one turn too late.

It just feels like pure RW gives you more punch. Then again, maybe I am misjudging the DW. I am still heartbroke that my favourite 6ed list, the White + Green alpha strike combo isn't what it used to be.

[march10k]

So, what is the advantage of using DW with RW over pure RW. DW seems more like a hindrance, although a very stylish one.

 

Balancing your shooting with some melee was an excellent answer, but here's another one:  it balances the types of resistance that you present to the enemy's attempts to kill models.  Toughness, armor, cover, and invul are different techniques to avoid getting crumped...bikes have toughness and cover, termies have armor and invul...no single silver bullet, except for the D weapon that rolls a 6, beats all of them, ergo, whatever your enemy is good at, some of your models are going to be more resistant than others.