Anyone else find 30k is absorbing the rest of their hobby?

[Raktra]

Aaaaaah ADB is in one of my threads.

Okay I'm calm, I'm calm.

[Marshal Rohr]

30k is awesome in a lot of ways, and my favorite books are from the Horus Heresy.

 

That said, from a pure lore standpoint 40k will always reign supreme for me. Watching a several thousand year old Empire burn while countless alien species emerge from every crevice to feast on it's carrion is just so awesome, and while the Horus Heresy is grand those measly seven years seem small compared to the 1000 years of war that follow in the Imperiums death knell.

 

So much is happening everywhere, heroes and villains emerge in every faction just in time to witness the dying of the light, it's so beautifully tragic and epic in scale that I don't think any other setting, or even any other point in this settings history will truly live up to it.

That is the underlying problem and why so many vehemently dislike the new 40K fluff. There are so many loyalist players that it's silly to push the crumbling empire aspect so hard. The light may be dying, but the good man says to rage against it, not meekly roll over for it. 40K fluff has no raging, no massive hosts of loyalist fighting to the last, no uncountable legions of warriors standing in the way of Satan Unleashed and all of Hell following him.

 

It's all sad stories of 100 marines fighting and dying over a silly super weapon or thousands of guardsmen wiped out without a single tale of the ones who refused to run and went out screaming in defiance. Tales of Eldar massacring Imperials over an artifact, or the Tyranids doing something that makes them less horrifying because it just seems so uncharacteristic of a Hive Mind. The returned Necrons? It's not an empire rising from the dust, it's a few silly characters and their wild adventures across the galaxy.

 

It has lost it's depth and it won't be coming back anytime soon.

[Loesh]

 

That is the underlying problem and why so many vehemently dislike the new 40K fluff. There are so many loyalist players that it's silly to push the crumbling empire aspect so hard. The light may be dying, but the good man says to rage against it, not meekly roll over for it. 40K fluff has no raging, no massive hosts of loyalist fighting to the last, no uncountable legions of warriors standing in the way of Satan Unleashed and all of Hell following him.

 

It's all sad stories of 100 marines fighting and dying over a silly super weapon or thousands of guardsmen wiped out without a single tale of the ones who refused to run and went out screaming in defiance. Tales of Eldar massacring Imperials over an artifact, or the Tyranids doing something that makes them less horrifying because it just seems so uncharacteristic of a Hive Mind. The returned Necrons? It's not an empire rising from the dust, it's a few silly characters and their wild adventures across the galaxy.

 

It has lost it's depth and it won't be coming back anytime soon.

 

 

I don't think that's true, it's a very small slice of the setting at least.

 

Granted i'm not an Imperium fan, I got hooked into 40k via Anthony Reynolds Word Bearer series, and that entire omnibus is filled with awesome tales about individual characters fighting for their beliefs(Shocking for the Word Bearers I know.) and how Chaos can change people. The Warmonger is, to date, one of the single most awesome characters i'v seen in any work of fiction.

 

Maybe one of these days we'll get a story about the Emperors Children in 40k? A man can dream, for now i'll just have to settle for the Perfection audio book.

[Marshal Rohr]

It is a small slice of the setting, but none of the other slices are that well developed and explored. The Sabbat Crusade is an excellent example of billions of men fighting a years long war, and nothing the studio creates is like that. The Siege of Vraks, another excellent example of the scale of 40K wars, never once matched by the studio. Badab Wars, nothing like the drama and intrigue of the Badab Wars has been released by the studio, and they created the war. It took another group to do it justice. Armageddon used to be this tale of the first line of defense against a new Beast, the greatest ork warlord since the Empire of Ullanor, and now he's run away to Tau space. 

 

It's just... bad. 

[Remus Ventanus.]

I like 30k because its alot more interesting then 40k imo. The majority of the 40k novels are 200 space marines taking on 100 000 orks, a necron host, ect ect. Its the reason why i hate marvel and DC: Its not interesting if they can never lose. 30k, on the other hand, has astartes dying in droves, and adds the realism i have desired.

 

Asthetically 40k is just bland now. 30k has so much more to offer in terms of armor, vehicles, and characters. 

 

That being said i do like 40k, mostly for the aliens. I dont think anyone should hate on 40k, hell its the reason were all here.

[Stofficus]

In terms of setting, I certainly fall into the "enjoy both, prefer 30k" camp at this point. 

I adore 40k, but I can't say I enjoy the direction it has taken as of late. A bit too cartoony, a bit too comic-book, and when the only changes are retcons of dubious value rather than either progress or filling in the backstory, I can't maintain enthusiasm. I'll always love it, but the passion I had when I get into this in a big way (largely enabled by Dawn of War 1 and Abnett's various fantastic early offerings from BL) just can't endure forever. Same sort of thing for me and Star Trek; still enjoy it, but it's not going anywhere I'm particularly interested in at present. 

30k feels dynamic, focused and is a real, living thing. Where 40k is ossified, 30k is an unfolding drama with excellent tone and direction which feels genuinely "grimdark" without being, shall we say, grimderp. It's obvious the studio adores what they're doing, as do the BL authors, and it shows in the quality of the work. While, I admit, the volume of the HH book series has somewhat turned me off as of late (I do some pretty serious cherry picking in novels; there's just too much at this point), but the tone remains superb, and Bligh and company have produced absolute works of art for the game system. 

And that brings me to a big point for me; the game system. 40k, mechanically, is in a place where, in theory, you can do whatever you want with it. The lack of structure may well be a boon to some, but my local group has gone well down the power gaming rabbit hole, and I don't enjoy it in the slightest. 40k has always been the expression of fantasy in a social context with enough of a ruleset to keep things honest and fun, not a competitive exercise (I've got Planetside 2, Company of Heroes and other PC games better suited to that honestly), and the lack of structure has turned everything into a gong show locally. 

30k strikes that balance mechanically that I want, and is very clear in its intentions; it's about the setting, the rules reward being fluffy but also offer considerable diversity with imperfect, but solid balancing. I've not had a washout 30k game yet, whereas 40k today is an exercise in seeing who's tabled by turn 3/4. I know that's not everyone's experience, but 30k offers a solution to most of what ails me, and one which can incorporate the power-gamey types as there's enough of a solid structure there that the difference between them and I is so much narrower than 40k. It's better for my social group if nothing else. 

Also, seriously, Mark 3 armour is wonderful looking. 

 

[Lord Blackwood]

I'm supposed to be finishing my Black Templar army but after watching two games of 30k and talking to the players .... can't stop thinking about a Scouring Era Imperial Fist Company right before transitioning to 2nd Founding Black Templar.

This is pretty much what im doing , though  I  still love 40k  and enjoy playing it  I am a big Space Marine Fan  so HH  appeals to me a lot more than a lot of things 

[Excessus]

I play CSM in 40k, so when I started to dive into 30k I was alternating at first...but it soon became overwhelming 30k. My CSM have not been touched for ages now, though I look at them from time to time and plan for great things in my head.

[A D-B]

It is a small slice of the setting, but none of the other slices are that well developed and explored. The Sabbat Crusade is an excellent example of billions of men fighting a years long war, and nothing the studio creates is like that. The Siege of Vraks, another excellent example of the scale of 40K wars, never once matched by the studio. 

 

But the studio isn't Warhammer 40,000. That's a key aspect in this debate where, incidentally, I'm having to be quite careful with what I say. I don't want to explain why X is awesome if it puts Y in a remotely less than positive light. But the point stands: the publications department (game rules, codexes, and novels) isn't the entirety of the setting of Warhammer 40,000. The setting exists in tone and feel regardless of what's released, with new releases adding to the melange but not banishing anything else. 

 

Look, Forge World has some great writers, most specifically in the case of Alan Bligh, and literally everyone that loves the Horus Heresy recognises that fact. Similarly, John French (who wrote half of the first three HH rulebooks) oozes talent. But they'd probably look at you glassy-eyed if you suggested the setting of the Horus Heresy was adamantly better than the setting of the Dark Millennium. As, indeed, would I. 

 

I love the culturally-affected supersoldiers of the 31st Millennium, and I love the baroque, arcane, monastic mystique of the Emperor's Angels of Death in the 41st Millennium. I love the breathtaking ravages of the galactic civil war in the Horus Heresy, and I love the raging against the dying of the light in an unimaginably complex empire in Warhammer 40,000. Which is why a sentence like this:

 

 

 

There are so many loyalist players that it's silly to push the crumbling empire aspect so hard. 

 

 

...doesn't make much sense. I don't care what you, him, or some other person plays. I care about the setting itself and how I can play in it. The number of loyalist players is beyond meaningless. The hobby being full of Space Wolf players doesn't mean the Imperium is full of Space Wolves.

 

There's no unfair pushing of the crumbling empire aspect; that's what 40K is. You can't push that too hard. Man vs. Man, The Enemy Without and the Enemy Within, while surrounded by hostile alien foes.

 

Now, where your point finds more traction is in your preference for Forge World's quality, and much like you I'd take an Alan Bligh leatherbound tome over a lot of other books. But I can separate the various presentations of the setting with my interaction and involvement with it. People are confusing "I like Forge World's writers and presentation much more than recent 40K stuff" with "40K is rubbish" and "40K is bland". 

 

And that's nonsense. 40K is 40K, regardless of releases. Every new book is only an incremental drop in the ocean of its entirety. And there's a world of difference between "I prefer this because it's fresh/new and/or this appeals to me personally" which is a perfectly valid personal viewpoint, and "30K is 40K for grown-ups" or "40K is bland now" which are objectively nonsense and either intentionally ignorant to insult people, or obtuse enough to deserve being called out as silly.

[Sheesh Mode]

I play CSM in 40k, so when I started to dive into 30k I was alternating at first...but it soon became overwhelming 30k. My CSM have not been touched for ages now, though I look at them from time to time and plan for great things in my head.

Consider using them as a legion. I personally find it quite satisfying. 

 

 

 

 People are confusing "I like Forge World's writers and presentation much more than recent 40K stuff" with "40K is rubbish" and "40K is bland". 

 

And that's nonsense. 40K is 40K, regardless of releases. Every new book is only an incremental drop in the ocean of its entirety. And there's a world of difference between "I prefer this because it's fresh/new and/or this appeals to me personally" which is a perfectly valid personal viewpoint, and "30K is 40K for grown-ups" or "40K is bland now" which are objectively nonsense and either intentionally ignorant to insult people, or obtuse enough to deserve being called out as silly.

 

 

A-D-B, your position puts the history of Warhammer at your fingertips. Either by association with its creators or at least someone capable of sourcing relevant fluff information from a codex, black library book, or pdf copy of a white dwarf or Games Workshop event weekly. You yourself have been associated with the game for some time now and have seen the natural change and growth of the game and its story over time, where as we have the Edition changes and codex releases. 

 

For you, all the fluff is a part of one great hegemony, where relevant fluff is used to support whatever perspective a player wishes because Warhammer is a setting of purposefully conflicting perspectives, and stories. But that disregards a laymans perspective that all current fluff is the de facto resource for how Warhammer should be viewed and treated. From our viewpoint Cadia has not fallen yet and the forces of Chaos are preparing to descend upon the world and destroy it. 

 

However, during the Eye of Terror campaign Chaos made major gains on Cadia, took most of it and was only hindered by its minor victories in the void which gave the Imperials room to reinforce Cadia with more ships. Eldrad, greatest farseer of his race was dead along with his warlock bodyguard, their souls sucked into Slaanesh's maw on a mission that had failed before it began. It was a major victory for chaos. That was way back in 3rd edition.

 

Here we are in 2015 and none of that has happened. Gamesoworkshop has the setting tipped at the point immediately before all of this occurs and all of the fluff currently implies this will be the end result. But it has not outright stated this. It has continued to build up an idea that has already been executed. A great example would be Imperial Armor 13 which states that the Black Crusade is underway and Cadia is struggling against it. 

 

This is frustrating for players who have been with the game for decades. We have seen the changes in the fluff and the rules and find that stories we considered inviolable have been changed or discarded. This is a major source of the anger that flooded 5th edition and the most of 6th. Sure, people complained about rules and shenanigans, but really it was about our precious fluff being dramatically changed. Nerds are touchy about that.

 

So, considering this it is not surprising that members turn to the more consistent story line of 30k as the 'older' warhammer. Its current fluff fits the same emotional vibe as the 3rd edition fluff from warhammer 40k. That's the problem for people. The disconnect and where they divide the two. 

 

This is a large part of why I play 30k. It feels like the warhammer I fell in love with when I was eleven years old. Half my bloody lifetime ago. Where space marines fought for their lives against unimaginable horrors capable of killing humans with a glance. Where god warriors stride worlds to bring human manifest destiny in the horror of space. Where even the super powered might of a praetor can be found lacking if he makes mistakes and 'acts ah fool'. That's cool. 

 

Current warhammer has some serious work to do on regaining that kind of feeling before players start considering it attractive again. 

 

Perhaps I am terribly misguided, or something. I mean I'm writing this at 6am when I should be asleep for Emperor's sake, and I certainly haven't invested much time in really getting into the background. I just pick things up like lost toys. But here we are, talking about 30k and finding a clear stylistic difference that isn't due to the setting alone. It's more the tone, the spirit of it. 

 

 

 

[A D-B]

 

I play CSM in 40k, so when I started to dive into 30k I was alternating at first...but it soon became overwhelming 30k. My CSM have not been touched for ages now, though I look at them from time to time and plan for great things in my head.

Consider using them as a legion. I personally find it quite satisfying. 

 

 

 

 People are confusing "I like Forge World's writers and presentation much more than recent 40K stuff" with "40K is rubbish" and "40K is bland". 

 

And that's nonsense. 40K is 40K, regardless of releases. Every new book is only an incremental drop in the ocean of its entirety. And there's a world of difference between "I prefer this because it's fresh/new and/or this appeals to me personally" which is a perfectly valid personal viewpoint, and "30K is 40K for grown-ups" or "40K is bland now" which are objectively nonsense and either intentionally ignorant to insult people, or obtuse enough to deserve being called out as silly.

 

 

A-D-B, your position puts the history of Warhammer at your fingertips. Either by association with its creators or at least someone capable of sourcing relevant fluff information from a codex, black library book, or pdf copy of a white dwarf or Games Workshop event weekly. You yourself have been associated with the game for some time now and have seen the natural change and growth of the game and its story over time, where as we have the Edition changes and codex releases. 

 

For you, all the fluff is a part of one great hegemony, where relevant fluff is used to support whatever perspective a player wishes because Warhammer is a setting of purposefully conflicting perspectives, and stories. But that disregards a laymans perspective that all current fluff is the de facto resource for how Warhammer should be viewed and treated. From our viewpoint Cadia has not fallen yet and the forces of Chaos are preparing to descend upon the world and destroy it. 

 

However, during the Eye of Terror campaign Chaos made major gains on Cadia, took most of it and was only hindered by its minor victories in the void which gave the Imperials room to reinforce Cadia with more ships. Eldrad, greatest farseer of his race was dead along with his warlock bodyguard, their souls sucked into Slaanesh's maw on a mission that had failed before it began. It was a major victory for chaos. That was way back in 3rd edition.

 

Here we are in 2015 and none of that has happened. Gamesoworkshop has the setting tipped at the point immediately before all of this occurs and all of the fluff currently implies this will be the end result. But it has not outright stated this. It has continued to build up an idea that has already been executed. A great example would be Imperial Armor 13 which states that the Black Crusade is underway and Cadia is struggling against it. 

 

This is frustrating for players who have been with the game for decades. We have seen the changes in the fluff and the rules and find that stories we considered inviolable have been changed or discarded. This is a major source of the anger that flooded 5th edition and the most of 6th. Sure, people complained about rules and shenanigans, but really it was about our precious fluff being dramatically changed. Nerds are touchy about that.

 

So, considering this it is not surprising that members turn to the more consistent story line of 30k as the 'older' warhammer. Its current fluff fits the same emotional vibe as the 3rd edition fluff from warhammer 40k. That's the problem for people. The disconnect and where they divide the two. 

 

This is a large part of why I play 30k. It feels like the warhammer I fell in love with when I was eleven years old. Half my bloody lifetime ago. Where space marines fought for their lives against unimaginable horrors capable of killing humans with a glance. Where god warriors stride worlds to bring human manifest destiny in the horror of space. Where even the super powered might of a praetor can be found lacking if he makes mistakes and 'acts ah fool'. That's cool. 

 

Current warhammer has some serious work to do on regaining that kind of feeling before players start considering it attractive again. 

 

Perhaps I am terribly misguided, or something. I mean I'm writing this at 6am when I should be asleep for Emperor's sake, and I certainly haven't invested much time in really getting into the background. I just pick things up like lost toys. But here we are, talking about 30k and finding a clear stylistic difference that isn't due to the setting alone. It's more the tone, the spirit of it. 

 

 

 

 

 

Hmm! That's a very interesting rebuttal, Sheesh. I was going to bow out of the conversation right after my post since there's nothing more I can bring to it and I don't want to get too deeply into either side (or perceived to be on either side), and this seems a great moment to bail in good spirits. So thanks for that, man. I'll give it some thought. 

[M@verik115]

I too prefer 30K over 40K and my main reason is 'feeling' as well. Maybe this is, because I too started playing during 3rd ed.

30K feel more 'real', the characters more vivid with relate-able flaws, which 40K cannot match these days.

I yearn for my old fluffy Imperial Guard, Chaos and Black Templar lists, which even if I lost I would have immense fun.

These days I have to contend with super-ultra-mega-giga-2+++twin-linked whatever. I still win 90% of my 40K games (usually only with several casualties), but they are not as memorable and truly fun as they were back in the day.

That is until I started with 30K...

When I got into 30K it reignited something which I haven't felt in a long while. I couldn't put the BL books, nor the FW books down. The last 40K codexi I read in their complete entirety were the 4th ed IG, BT and Chaos ones. I felt like I did when I started playing 40K, thinking about and feeling the lore.
After my first 30K game my interest did not fade. I lost it, but I had fun!
There is no going back now
My Black Templars are now a scouring era force using the crusade army list and I am enjoying them more than ever.
My Imperial Guard are still being used for 40K, but I am considering bringing them in line with the 30K army lists.

I believe they also target vastly different audiences. 40K seems to be more for the younger crowd who hasn't experienced the horrors of life yet. 30K is more for 'veteran' players who are aware of how crap life can be lol.

The biggest set back to 30K is without doubt the cost, but what you get for it is definitely more than the current cartoon hammer.

[WolfOfHorus]

Fluff discussion now I see. Honestly, people say 40k lacks bite, but 30k while interesting doesn't have leg to stand on in terms of tension. Its like reading the end of a book before even touching the first chapter, absolutely kills it for me.

 

I prefered when 30k had very few books and more was left to interpretation.

[M@verik115]

Fluff discussion now I see. Honestly, people say 40k lacks bite, but 30k while interesting doesn't have leg to stand on in terms of tension. Its like reading the end of a book before even touching the first chapter, absolutely kills it for me.

 

I prefered when the 30k had very few books and more was left to interpretation.

 

That is the only real thing I have against 30K. We all know how it ends and what actually happens. 

But I'm sure you are just upset, because you know Horus dies. ;) 

[Marshal Rohr]

Fluff discussion now I see. Honestly, people say 40k lacks bite, but 30k while interesting doesn't have leg to stand on in terms of tension. Its like reading the end of a book before even touching the first chapter, absolutely kills it for me.

 

I prefered when 30k had very few books and more was left to interpretation.

The HBO series Rome, about Julius Caeser, was widely loved. As was Band of Brothers. In fact, I believe Titanic won an Oscar, as did Lincoln.

[M@verik115]

 

Fluff discussion now I see. Honestly, people say 40k lacks bite, but 30k while interesting doesn't have leg to stand on in terms of tension. Its like reading the end of a book before even touching the first chapter, absolutely kills it for me.

 

I prefered when 30k had very few books and more was left to interpretation.

The HBO series Rome, about Julius Caeser, was widely loved. As was Band of Brothers. In fact, I believe Titanic won an Oscar, as did Lincoln.

 

And the bible is still the most sold book, but everyone knows how it ends anyway ;) 

[depthcharge12]

 

Fluff discussion now I see. Honestly, people say 40k lacks bite, but 30k while interesting doesn't have leg to stand on in terms of tension. Its like reading the end of a book before even touching the first chapter, absolutely kills it for me.

I prefered when 30k had very few books and more was left to interpretation.

The HBO series Rome, about Julius Caeser, was widely loved. As was Band of Brothers. In fact, I believe Titanic won an Oscar, as did Lincoln.

"There is nothing new under the sun..."

 

I'd say even though we largely know what happens to the big 19, everything in between is being fleshed out. Yet, in 40k novels, a majority of the protagonists make it through, unless you're the Excoriators or the Silver Skulls.

[WolfOfHorus]

 

 

Fluff discussion now I see. Honestly, people say 40k lacks bite, but 30k while interesting doesn't have leg to stand on in terms of tension. Its like reading the end of a book before even touching the first chapter, absolutely kills it for me.

 

I prefered when the 30k had very few books and more was left to interpretation.

That is the only real thing I have against 30K. We all know how it ends and what actually happens.

But I'm sure you are just upset, because you know Horus dies. ;)

LOL, too true.

 

This isn't history though, it's fiction. Frankly vagueness and mystery hooked me on 30k, that's long gone now.

[Marshal Rohr]

Now, where your point finds more traction is in your preference for Forge World's quality, and much like you I'd take an Alan Bligh leatherbound tome over a lot of other books. But I can separate the various presentations of the setting with my interaction and involvement with it. People are confusing "I like Forge World's writers and presentation much more than recent 40K stuff" with "40K is rubbish" and "40K is bland".

That is my entire point, using specific examples of studio work to illustrate why I find 30K absorbing all my interest. If the studio presented it's work in the same way and with the same quality, I never would've boxed my Templars. Hell, if the transition to Emperor and Psyker worship had been handled in the same way FW has handled blending different fluff for the Legions, I might even have preferred the transition.

 

And that's nonsense. 40K is 40K, regardless of releases. Every new book is only an incremental drop in the ocean of its entirety. And there's a world of difference between "I prefer this because it's fresh/new and/or this appeals to me personally" which is a perfectly valid personal viewpoint, and "30K is 40K for grown-ups" or "40K is bland now" which are objectively nonsense and either intentionally ignorant to insult people, or obtuse enough to deserve being called out as silly.

40K would have to repair so much to undue the damage of the past few years. It is a game and our armies or our own slice of the universe. If I can't make the army I want, then why would I find the universe anything but bland?

[DuskRaider]

40K fluff isn't horrible. It's definitely jumped the shark in some aspects, and that's quite a feat for a fictional universe where a 10,000 year old husk eats thousands of people's souls a day to keep a light house in another dimension lit. It's the game play that irks me. I was talking about it with a friend of mine, and put it this way... all the guffaw we had for 5th Edition mechanized bollocks is a drop in the bucket compared to the outright derpery committed in the current climate. Entire armies of Strength D weapons or Titans... things we were unsure of when Apocalypse first hit the streets yay many years ago. An arms race that GW cannot undo because they've invested so much into it that you either WAAC or get pulled out with the tide. It's ridiculous. When I have someone trying to convince me that the new Tau Lord of War isn't that bad, something has gone wrong.

[Memento Of Prospero]

The big difference for me, and this is my personal opinion as an amateur hobbyist, is that the difference inbetween 40k and 30k is  how the lore and setting is brought forward as time goes by.

 

In recent years, we have seen tons of new content for the Horus Heresy thanks to black library and forgeworld's lines of releases. This content expanded most of the existing lore for the legions and brought more dept to each legion and brought some interesting tweeks as well.

 

In contrast, 40k's recent years have been at the opposite spectrum of that. Instead of adding more dept or expanding on pre-established lore - It has gone into a wood chipper mode. Space Marines are not just a splatter of colours out of the ultramarine mold. You had something amazing and marginal in the Iron Hands clan system, you had the Templars with all their zeal and unorthodox organization. What happened to that? streamlined. 

 

The New SM codex is so cartoon and cheaply made. You can clearly see that they are marketing for the younger audience with all the stories resolving around Uriel Ventris type Mary Sues.

[Marshal Rohr]

Until the day I can build and model an Imperial Army and Traitor Army fighting over a broken Kasr on Cadia with thousands of space marines, millions of mortal soldiers, vast armies of warmachines against the armies of Hell, 40K will never be a setting worth exploring. I like grand scale stories. 40K is character driven and small scale. It gives the illusion of depth by focusing on small groups in wider societies, but it never realistically convinces me that their is a wider conflict to be won or lost. 30K does, even if I know who wins and loses, my characters dont. How can I create an army to showcase thousands of space marines fighting over a broken Kasr during the final hours of the Millennium when the studio tells me I can only ever have a thousand, and I cant use any of the chapters they release models for? If I want more I have to use the same pattern of unit over and over again, with no variation. FW isnt beholden to in-universe restrictions, thus their conflicts feel grander.

[DuskRaider]

When I pick up my Siege of Vraks or HH books, I feel like I'm reading an historical account akin to an actual war book, resplendent with diagrams of trenchs, detailed technical battle information, first hand accounts, etc.

When I read a 40K codex, I feel like I'm flipping through a comic book. Things like Kaldor Draigo. Totally ridiculous. That's what we mean by a more mature take on the setting.

[Stofficus]

When I pick up my Siege of Vraks or HH books, I feel like I'm reading an historical account akin to an actual war book, resplendent with diagrams of trenchs, detailed technical battle information, first hand accounts, etc.

When I read a 40K codex, I feel like I'm flipping through a comic book. Things like Kaldor Draigo. Totally ridiculous. That's what we mean by a more mature take on the setting.

 

ADB had a solid point though, in that those are just one part of the setting/universe. For people born and raised into the tabletop side of things, no doubt the current tone of codex fluff is offputting, but then imagine how someone whose first experience of Starwars was Episode 1 or, *shudder* the christmas special might perceive things. 

 

Even the whole GW "Design Team" is only one aspect of 40k; I strongly dislike the direction they're taking in fluff and game, but they don't invalidate Gaunt's Ghosts, the Wars of Armageddon, the Siege of Vraks, The Badab Wars, the Eisenhorn trilogy or anything else. It is totally fair to say that 40k is going in a direction you dislike, I certainly do, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's an immature, youngster-orientated disaster. 

 

If that were the case, I might actually uninstall Dawn of War (which was my first introduction to the setting as an adult, I hadn't read a single codex until years later, well after reading the Black Library, Lexicanum and so on). 

[Marshal Rohr]

 

When I pick up my Siege of Vraks or HH books, I feel like I'm reading an historical account akin to an actual war book, resplendent with diagrams of trenchs, detailed technical battle information, first hand accounts, etc.

When I read a 40K codex, I feel like I'm flipping through a comic book. Things like Kaldor Draigo. Totally ridiculous. That's what we mean by a more mature take on the setting.

 

ADB had a solid point though, in that those are just one part of the setting/universe. For people born and raised into the tabletop side of things, no doubt the current tone of codex fluff is offputting, but then imagine how someone whose first experience of Starwars was Episode 1 or, *shudder* the christmas special might perceive things. 

 

Even the whole GW "Design Team" is only one aspect of 40k; I strongly dislike the direction they're taking in fluff and game, but they don't invalidate Gaunt's Ghosts, the Wars of Armageddon, the Siege of Vraks, The Badab Wars, the Eisenhorn trilogy or anything else. It is totally fair to say that 40k is going in a direction you dislike, I certainly do, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's an immature, youngster-orientated disaster. 

 

If that were the case, I might actually uninstall Dawn of War (which was my first introduction to the setting as an adult, I hadn't read a single codex until years later, well after reading the Black Library, Lexicanum and so on). 

 

 

A good point, Stoff. The studio has done some damage to the older grand campaigns of Armageddon and the 13th BC by redefining how long they were fought and who was present. Helsreach/Blood and Fire showed the desperation of Armageddon perfectly. Eternal Crusader and Codex:Gazghkull did irreparable damage to that presentation though.