BT Scout Sniper Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Hi everyone. I am thinking of starting a Storm Trooper Army (Small) and wanted to ask 1.it is possible to run a 4th ED Storm Troopers: ? 2. Are the Storm Troopers/Kasrkins/Tempestus Scions the same? Just different Molds? 3. What Codex would I use? Yes I am a older player (Armageddon 3rd War), I love the look of the Previous Storm Troopers, but the Tempestus Scions for me personally look like they have just stepped out from a Castle with the Knight Torso plate. Regards, Brad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 As long as it's a dude in carapace armour with a beefed up lasgun, it's all good. If you want pure storm troopers, you'll need Codex: Militarum Tempestus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4188201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 As Lucien said you can use whatever models you like as long as they look a bit better equipped than normal Guardsmen. Stormie (Scion) squads are also available as part of the Guard codex :) We've quite a fair number of Stormtrooper commanders here so you're in good company. Do you have any pictures of your army to share? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4188488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Antaeus Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 1. Yes. Sort of. The actual Codex: Militarum Tempestus only has 5 unit entries and one of them is a Commissar that you have no reason to take. This is totally doable up to about 1250 points during which C:MT will act at the power level of any middle-low tier codex (CSM, DE). After 1250, your army is going to begin to suffer from a lack of variety and you will encounter builds that can kill your fairly expensive units seemingly without effort. You have a few choices at this point: -Tough it out. Some people can. Other players will love you for your characterful army, but Tau and Eldar will make your blood pressure spike. -Take allies: 7th ed opens many opportunities for cheese with allies, but if you do it intelligently, you can choose fluffy allies that really supplement your army. Knights (who need support that can keep up) and Adeptus Mechanicus (who have a hard time striking targets deep in the opposing DZ) both benefit greatly from allying with C:MT. Finally, if you just want a little power boost, Inquisition is (paradoxically) a fairly non-invasive way to beef up your army. -Roll into Astra Militarum: I put this as a separate option because C:MT units fit so well into existing IG (used because Adeptus Mechanicus appears above) armies that it requires very little tweaking. You can ally IG to C:MT if you just want some heavy support to fling abuse back at your opponents, or you can do it the other way, allying C:MT into your IG army. Finally, you can field MT as an actual unit entry in the IG codex which gives you regular IG orders (which IMHO are more powerful) AND the flexibility of using the Taurox Prime OR putting your Scions into Chimeras. 2. Yes. Sort of. You can run them using the same rules, but you have a few choices. -Militarum Tempestus: Have their own codex and their own orders. Can field a bitchin transport that is very powerful if used correctly. -Carapace armored veterans: the Astra Militarum Codex has lots of units to help support your carapace armored guys, though they lose their badass lasguns and the ability to deep strike and move through cover. -Elysian Drop Troop Stormtroopers: More expensive per model than tactical marines, these guys are armed to the teeth. You get a really cool special operations rule, supporting deep striking troops AND your storm troopers all carry hellpistol/CCW in addition to their hellguns (now called hotshot lasguns for the same family-friendly reasons that Slaanesh is going away). Loses the Taurox prime, but can deep strike and can get move through cover back. Less synergy with orders. 3. Codex: Militarum Tempestus. Sort of. See 2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4240464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Stormtroopers are a niche army...they suffer from lack of long range antitank and melee, as well as their best stuff being air-based, which is bad if you're facing a lot of stuff with skyfire. That said, the things that a 4x plasma stormtrooper command squad can do to a stupidly-expensive death company squad, well, it's legendary... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4240951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Stormtroopers by themselves aren't really a viable army in my opinion. The C:MT leaves much to be desired, as they really lack any long range fire support. They have only a handful of things that reach beyond 24 inches, and they sorely lack anything that can hurt armor from range. I love using them, I try to build my lists around them but honestly they require a lot of support. Best to take them in an AM list rather than from their own codex, unless you run dual CAD for extra FA slots and ObSec stormies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4241061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I like to run the air cav formation along with a CAD from another codex, but it runs about 950 points, which is a hell of a lot for 21 men and 4 birds! Huge fun, but not terribly practical. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4241485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulpine Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I had a 4th ed storm trooper army. Yes the new guys are just plastic storm troopers with new names. I used codex Demon Hunters. Storm troopers are Troops! I mounted all in Chi's. I then took a Inquisotor as a count as Storm trooper captain. I gave him Warrior ret with Hellguns (the storm trooper weapon name at the time). It was actually a really decent army. I disembarked usually from the start. Pairs of Cis taking it in turns to fire all weapons while the other moves 6 and fires one. Storm troopers would move up behind the tank. Ci is a real good tank!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4244128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Except they lost the HSLP/CCW combo, and thus an extra attack each. If only Chimeras had something like the Taurox Battlecannon they'd be better. It's unfortunate that we no longer have the old 5E rules to work with anymore. I mean you could use them but you'd have to get your opponent's permission right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4244357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrim Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I've run the Tempestus Air Cav formation as a detachment a fair bit over the past year. It's not competitive but it's entertaining if you feel like some death from above action. Main problem is Scions are over costed in points. The formation itself isn't bad but it would be much better if reserve rolls happened turn one. In Maelstrom missions it's rubbish because you don't really get boots on the ground till turn 2-3, ergo not scoring many points. That said I've found best results running Scions as MSUs, usually 5-6 man to maximize spec weapons. Another crappy part is you're pretty much roped into taking Astra as allies to get Vendettas in. Tauroxes I just can't convince myself that a vehicle that light is worth 80ish points. Call it what it is, MT was the first main game book to introduce formations. Growing pains. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4244370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I agree to an extent. I like my Squads to be 8 man units, enough that a single death won't make them run, but small enough to attach some characters (Ordo Malleus Termie Inquisitors are a favorite). The Taurox prime can do a lot of damage, but I agree it's not worth 80 points. But that's the cost for now, so until we get a points drop it'll do. I like the little truck, it's fast, and packs a whallop. Now with the formations out of Mont'Ka, we can readily get vendettas (9 of them if you really want), and more valkyries too. It also gives us a way to field a smaller airborne detachment, and still have boots on the ground first turn. That formation a MTCS, 4 Squads (8 man, 2 squads in TP's), an ADL w/quad gun, a Knight Paladin w/IWND, and an Emperor's Spear comes in at right around 1850 points, and should be fully tourney legal. Dunno how well it will work, but keep that knight back so he can hammer on stuff with the RFBC, and you'll own the day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4244655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I agree to an extent. I like my Squads to be 8 man units, enough that a single death won't make them run, you mean two deaths... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4247811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I agree to an extent. I like my Squads to be 8 man units, enough that a single death won't make them run, you mean two deaths... Well, yeah, I guess you're right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4247919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I agree to an extent. I like my Squads to be 8 man units, enough that a single death won't make them run, you mean two deaths... Well, yeah, I guess you're right. Which, in turn means that, for the purpose of the number of deaths required to trigger a panic test, eight men are no better than five. Ironically, nine men would require three deaths, you're exactly one short! That's not to say that eight isn't better than five...just not for the reason you gave Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4250268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Which, in turn means that, for the purpose of the number of deaths required to trigger a panic test, eight men are no better than five. Ironically, nine men would require three deaths, you're exactly one short! That's not to say that eight isn't better than five...just not for the reason you gave True enough. I can get away with 9 man squads, and have enough models to do 4 of them, I can do 5 squads of 8 though, and have 2 command squads. I like even squads, also 8 man squads let me stick 2 in Taurox primes and have enough space leftover for my OM Termie inquisitors. That will stand out front, tank hits and provide psyker support while my stormies do their ranged work from behind. I have a hard time with deciding what psychic powers my inquisitors should take though, since the unit doesn't want to be in close combat, and orders give them pretty good buffs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4250274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 For me, it depends on what the squad's purpose is...if they're there to provide two (or four) BS4 special weapons, then five men is all you need. If they're supposed to hold an objective, then I try for ten...but usually, with that "9 and 10 both panic at 3 dead" thought in the back of my head, I usually find a way to spend the points on that last man elsewhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4250595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 For me, it depends on what the squad's purpose is...if they're there to provide two (or four) BS4 special weapons, then five men is all you need. If they're supposed to hold an objective, then I try for ten...but usually, with that "9 and 10 both panic at 3 dead" thought in the back of my head, I usually find a way to spend the points on that last man elsewhere. I can definitely see where you're coming from. I run my army as really only stormies, objective grabbers are really what I want, so I need the larger number of bodies, so It's going to be four 9 man squads with plasma guns, and two MTCS's one for orders, and the other for a suicide squad. The Mont'ka Book really helped me out, so I can now readily get a vendetta to pop tanks. And If I had 4 more sentinels I'd be able to run the Emperor's talon, but as it is I can just cheaply ally some dreads (which are arguably better). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4250644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 That's pretty cool. I don't have vendettas, but I'd be tempted to use the same formation. (I do have ten sentinels to run the talon, that's a great idea!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4251319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Wow, looks like you need 2 more to run the full thing. Having vendettas is a great thing, It also lets you get an airborne formation in for a lot less points investment. It can be 3 valkyries, 3 vendettas, 1 vendetta and 2 valkyries, 2 vendettas and 1 valkyrie. That's squadrons, so you could have a ton of stuff flying onto the board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4251367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Wow, looks like you need 2 more to run the full thing. Yeah, back in the dark ages when a CCS could have a sentinel squadron, I had dreams of running fifteen sentinels (six HQ and 9 elite), especially since LOS was 2D back then (a model's base blocked it), for the sort of shenanigans that rhinos are now reduced to (mobile cover), except that it was more like a walking wall of invisibility in which you could open up tiny gaps for keyhole shots without much risk of return fire...the downside being AV10...but like a void shield, you had to drop the sentinel to get at the real target...and if you wrecked it instead of destroying it, it just became an immobile pillar of LOS-blocking dangerous terrain. I never got them all done, and when time, rules, and metagame moved on, I only ever bothered repainting four of them to my present paint scheme...might have to do that now. Dunno if I want twelve for stormtrooper support...but maybe eight or nine. Alternatively, I'm thinking of my pimped out shadowsword in a tiny cad. CCS with officer of the fleet is really good for ensuring that the air cav comes in on turn two (1/36 failure rate instead of 1/9) and can give an order to each of the two veteran squads...I'm thinking forward sentries with autocannons...in ruins, going to ground without having to snap shoot...yum! That would be a really survivable base of fire for the stormtroopers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4251971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 The sentinel formation requires the squadrons be full so it would need to be either 6 or 9 or 12. But hey 6 plasma cannons can kill a beastly amount of stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4251999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Ah...three each lascannons, autocannons, and multilasers, then, based on models on hand...but outflanking armored sentinels, plus the HQ-like-thingie...saweet! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4253367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Ah...three each lascannons, autocannons, and multilasers, then, based on models on hand...but outflanking armored sentinels, plus the HQ-like-thingie...saweet! It is, personally I like the plasma cannon armored sentinels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4253408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I like the idea, especially in light of BS3, but I don't own the models...kinda hard to justify buying them when I'm not using the ones I already have...maybe if I could get sentinel plasma cannons a la carte from FW...or if I were to want/need 12... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4253414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I like the idea, especially in light of BS3, but I don't own the models...kinda hard to justify buying them when I'm not using the ones I already have...maybe if I could get sentinel plasma cannons a la carte from FW...or if I were to want/need 12... I see what you mean. I actually learned that build before I started playing guard. They were brutal when I faced them. By all means use what you have, just saying that it's my preference, but I really like templates, because I've been burned by hordes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314486-storm-trooper-question/#findComment-4253447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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