Berzul Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Im working on putting together two variants of a command squad to run on a Lion's Blade. Got me wondering what everyone over here likes to give this guys. What are the top favoured builds. For instance, I like two ideas; both with your usual suspects: Company Champion, Apothecary and Standard Bearer. The changes come to play on the two remaining veterans, and their support. 1) 2 Grav Guns, Sacred Standard, on a Rhino, with a Lv2 Librarian (Divination) with an auspex 2) 2 Power Swords, Chapter Banner, on a rhino/drop pod, with Ezekiel (for his BoS) What do you guys prefer when making up a command squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidicul Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I've got one squad, 5x grav-guns, 5x storm shields on a razorback with assault cannons. They're my problem solver squad. Most times they have a level 2 Libby rolling on divination with them. EDIT:Forgot to mention the banner in the squad. I think this setup with transport is 330 points, so yes its an expensive build, but they have yet to fail me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epher Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Favorite command squad? It was these guys but I configured them with the previous codex to take advantage of the old Banner of Devastation. The load out was 3 combi plasmas, one plasma gun and an apothecary. The banner arm is magnetized. As for future builds? I would go with 4 grav guns with the banner instead of the two. This will get more grav shots out for the use of the banner. I would use a drop pod in the first round instead of the rhino. For about the price of the banner and two grav guns you could have a devastator squad with just two grav cannons. It equals the same amount of grav shots with the rhino on the move and this way the rest of your pricey vets in the command squad are not twiddling their thumbs waiting for the rhino to get popped. For the future for me, I am thinking a Librarius Conclave with the command squad. Zeke with 2 to 4 ML1 bare bones librarians and a command squad with an apothecary for FnP. Double up on the pistols for the vets to give extra shots during shooting and the +1 attack for close quarters. Add in the chapter banner for another +1 attack with Ezekiel's +1 attack and the +1 attack for the charge. That would give 5 models with 5 base attacks per turn with 5 force weapon attacks per librarian and then 6 force sword attacks from Ezekiel too. So a command squad with a full conclave will get you: 5 Mind Worm attacks in the psychic phase 10 bolt pistol shots with 5 plasma or grav pistol shots in the shooting phase 26 force sword attacks (31 on the charge) 25 S4 AP- attacks (30 on the charge) Sounds like fun to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Mine is simple and cheap(ish): 5x Grav in a Pod and Banner of Relentless. Maybe attach Characters as required by enemy and mission. They go MC hunting generally, either that or flank harassment. Stobz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I think the trend now will be 5x gravs. Simply too good to pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher 102 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I end up trading one of the grav guns for an apothecary . . . and occasionally the feel no pain actually works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epher Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I end up trading one of the grav guns for an apothecary . . . and occasionally the feel no pain actually works! Must a command squad vet trade his weapons for a narthecium? According to the rules, it just says that he be upgraded by taking one. So a 5 man grav gun command squad with apothecary seems very doable with the new codex! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher 102 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The command squad starts with 5 Veterans (notice capital V). One Veteran may be upgraded to an Apothecary (which has its own profile and is no longer a Veteran). Any Veteran may take items from the Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons, and/or Special Weapons. The Apothecary has no options available to him and must keep his bolt pistol and chainsword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epher Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Deleted because of browser error. Posted twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epher Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I end up trading one of the grav guns for an apothecary . . . and occasionally the feel no pain actually works! The command squad starts with 5 Veterans (notice capital V). One Veteran may be upgraded to an Apothecary (which has its own profile and is no longer a Veteran). Any Veteran may take items from the Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons, and/or Special Weapons. The Apothecary has no options available to him and must keep his bolt pistol and chainsword. Yes, GW capitalizes the unit and model names in the codex. According to RAW, you have a Dark Angels Veteran and you can buy a special weapon. He is still a Veteran but it then says that "one Veteran may be upgraded to an Apothecary, taking a narthecium." It does not say replace bolt pistol, chainsword or boltgun with the narthecium. Therefore, a Veteran buys grav-gun (please note the hyphen) and then he can be upgraded to an Apothecary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 The apothecary discussion has been done before, without results, really. As I understand it, taking the Narthecium UPGRADES the Veteran into an Apothecary, which would be a different tipe of unit, since they are both capitalized. As such, since the gear options for the Veteran are exclusive for the Veteran, the Apothecary would not be able to take them. Taking an item BEFORE the Upgrade would not work, since by the Upgrade, the weapon options taken would become no longer eligible for the unit. So, the Apothecary would only be able to carry a bolt pistol and chainsword, along with the narthecium. As for the grav gun idea, yeah, I'm guessing the optimal build now would be 4 grav guns and one Sacred Standard, for 12 relentless salvo shots. Put them on either a Rhino or a Drop Pod for mobility and you've got a powerful firing unit. Expensive... but powerful. I'm guessing that the same principle that applies for the Apothecary, goes for the Standard Bearer, so he would not be able to take a grav gun himself. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallaisbananen Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The writing in the codex says "A model may take up to one of the following:" and not may replace one of its weapons for a standard which would mean that the bearer can take a gravgun as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 So you COULD have 5 grav guns and a Sacred Standard? Talk about overkill... Still, it WOULD be 200 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 You can have a Standard Bearer with a special weapon (which is awesome with Grav), but you cannot have an Apothecary with one (less awesome). My 2c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 So you COULD have 5 grav guns and a Sacred Standard? Talk about overkill... Still, it WOULD be 200 points. I've run this, and it's awesome. You can't run it into the open on it's own, and putting it inside a rhino is very nice for mobility purposes. Otherwise a DW Command Squad with with TH/SSx3, Champ, Apothecary with the company banner is a favorite of mine also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Is the champ worth taking over another th/ss guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Always! He is great for challenges against anything that is not a total beatstick with AP2 and our Champ clubs at initiative which is great vs them. I never pay for the DW Apothecary though, losing the fist is not even close to worth it imho; better to spend points on killy stuff and let the SS soak up AP2 stuff. DW will still die to high rate of fire shooting anyway so I don't worry about it and aim to shape the battlefield so they can spend as much time in CC as possible. I always take a heavy weapon in the DWCS as well, that may or may not be on a TH/SS dude dependent on how I feel. EDIT: But DWCS discussion is a bit off topic unless the OP wants to go there. bs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 Always! He is great for challenges against anything that is not a total beatstick with AP2 and our Champ clubs at initiative which is great vs them. I never pay for the DW Apothecary though, losing the fist is not even close to worth it imho; better to spend points on killy stuff and let the SS soak up AP2 stuff. DW will still die to high rate of fire shooting anyway so I don't worry about it and aim to shape the battlefield so they can spend as much time in CC as possible. I always take a heavy weapon in the DWCS as well, that may or may not be on a TH/SS dude dependent on how I feel. EDIT: But DWCS discussion is a bit off topic unless the OP wants to go there. bs Hey, I was asking for regular command squads, but the invitation was to talk about your FAVOURITE cc, so of course DW and RW are welcome to the discussion! :D I do think that, on the regular cc, the apothecary is a must, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarFromSam Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 For the lion's blade, personal preference leads me to choosing two 5 man melta squad units in drop pods. Then, I load up the Assault squads with lots of fiery goodnessand plop them in pods as well. Turn one you can drop what you need, where you need it, to kill most anything. If you want to further combo, pair this up with a pair of dreads, and a pair of pods. Then, pick a tact to drop in a pod as well. Turn one you can flood the board with infantry to neutralize anti tank, or drop A LOT of melta to take out knights and the like. Grav works better as it is a threat to every unit, but you pay a premium for it. Also, the melta command squad doesn't lose effectiveness without the banner. 280 points gets you ten vets with melta who are scoring, and overwatch at bs 4. PLUS two scoring pods. I love the lion's blade as it lets you react to their list, while still being aggressive. This, of course, is personal preference, and is reactionary to where I play (lots of knights.) But, in my experience, drop pod units do a good job skirmishing, and killing key targets, but in the end they usually end up in a smoking crater. As such, I tend to keep them cheap, and skimp on fancy gear. Poor guys. Turn over must be pretty high for these guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I'm the same when it come to keeping them as cheap as possible, they will die unless a tonne of points is spent trying to keep them alive, those points are usually better spent on more of the Emprahs finest killers. Berzul: Good on ya! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 Cost is the main issue here. Im not really a fan of extremly specialized units. A 5 melta vet squad means 140 points. 145 with an apothecary. 150 with a champion. 185 or more with transport. For about the same points you could get a 10-man tactical with melta, combi melta and a transport. Its a more durable and versatile unit in the end. When it comes to the command squads, I try to think how best to play to its advantages over a tactical squad. This seems to come from the banners. You either gear the squad for melee with the chapter banner, or you gear them for salvo/heavy fire with the sacred standard. The thing is, how do you keep costs low. The basic squad will come up to 155 with a drop pod or rhino, not counting the banner. Add 30 for a couple of special weapons (grav guns, powerswords, or something like that) and you are already at 185 as a base cost. Banners will put you into the 210-220 range. Pricey for 5 bs4 s4 t4 sv3+ marines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I think that your concept of looking at what they can do over the equivalent points in other compulsory squads is the right way to go. I had a major problem with Riptides and other MCs in my area. I previously wasted a tonne of shooting (often nearly my whole army) at taking them down due to their threat to me. I've found that a 5x Relentless Grav gun squad in a pod, even if more expensive than a single well tooled Tactical squad will achieve more in a shorter time before perishing. I don't do the 5x Melta thing anymore as we can pop tanks etc better with other units, MCs were my bane... no longer. Sometimes you just need the right tool, Grav to me is that tool, plasma was good, but more shots= better chance at killing sooner. Time is a factor vs MCs as they don't degrade in effectiveness until destroyed/killed. A simple addition to our codex has multiplied how effective we can be, without all the other cool Formation shenanigans. I wouldn't use them in CC; there are many good threads out there on Comd squads vs. larger Veteran squads on that topic, if you want CC, go Vets, CSs are too small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Derailing back to DwCS for a moment. Stobz, how would you equip a full on melee command squad? It's for a redemption force in a lion's. I have a libby and 2 normal squads also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Champ, 3x TH/SS, and 1x Cannon (of choice)/Chainfist. You could take another TH/SS but I feel there is more to gain with a cannon and CF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Banner also? What if there is 2 other squads with cannon/cf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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