Jorre Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Few questions on this force org set up! 1. It looks really good(sorry no a question) 2. Do you actually need to be flesh tearers to use it? I dont see why regular Blood angels couldnt use it... they sre the same models. 3. Can you still take Dante as your LOW choice? 4. This force actually seems exactly the same as an allied strike force but witg more/better options! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 1. it depends on whether the +1 I from the BSF actually helps you. Against other marines the BSF is better, against armies that strike first even against I5, not so much. 2. No. How you paint your models is irrelevant 3. Yes. It might get you weird looks though 4. Again not a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 Hmmm so basically its an allied strike force just for codex BA. Plus you also get an extra 2 heavy, 2 elite and 5 fast attack slots oh and a LOW choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Smith Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Hmmm so basically its an allied strike force just for codex BA. Plus you also get an extra 2 heavy, 2 elite and 5 fast attack slots oh and a LOW choice. But no Objective Secured. To answer the original questions: 1 - Correct. 2 - There's nothing forcing you to, but you probably should. An argument could be made for other successors. If you're fielding actual Blood Angels, it's probably fairer to stick with their detachment charts (they already have a few of them.) 3 - That's cheating. What's wrong with Seth? 4 - Correct, but no Objective Secured. Also, the re-roll for Warlord Traits only applies to the Flesh Tearers Warlord table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The only thing flesh Tearer about this is the name. It is a BA detachment and as such all units are taken from our codex. You can though, if you wish, roll on the FT warlord traits and take thier relics on addition to our own. The warlord traits are very good too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 3 - That's cheating. What's wrong with Seth? How so? Does the formation list Dante as an invalid unit? Dante definitely has Faction Blood Angels and so is one of the admissible units for the FTSF. It does not make much sense fluff wise, but breaks no rules. And even from the fluff you could probably make up a justification. There is also the option of Counts-As Dante for a BA successor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Smith Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 3 - That's cheating. What's wrong with Seth? How so? Does the formation list Dante as an invalid unit? Dante definitely has Faction Blood Angels and so is one of the admissible units for the FTSF. It does not make much sense fluff wise, but breaks no rules. And even from the fluff you could probably make up a justification. There is also the option of Counts-As Dante for a BA successor. A bit of hyperbole on my part. Of course, there's nothing in the rules preventing you from doing it; it's just a fluff thing. Using the rules for a counts-as Sucessor would probably be the best justification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildrcheese Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I'm absolutely against anyone trying to claim that 'normal' BA shouldn't be using the FTSF, its an alterative way to play with some interesting mechanics. If someone refused to play me for trying to use it, I'd consider it a bonus that I know to avoid that player in the future. This may sound harsh but this is a Blood Angels faction detachment, and any blood angels player can use this legitimately. That aside... I've run it multiple times with Dante, and it's awesome when you pull those amazing charges for extra attacks. It's great if you want to run a '5th ed' style list with loads of assault marines. The 1 troop minimum is also pretty sweet. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Technically, anything with the blood drop at the top is applicable to our army. Ergo, if there is no unique icon on the top of the dataslate/formation and has an actual winged blood drop, it's usable by any blood angels faction army. Incidentally, one can argue that just because it is called a fleshtearers doesn't mean anything as it's just the formation name. They pioneered the formation so logically all Blood Angels are aware that this type of formation exists and can be used. Does not the Codex Astartes allow the inclusions of new Battle Tested formations and battle doctrine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Smith Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I'm absolutely against anyone trying to claim that 'normal' BA shouldn't be using the FTSF, its an alterative way to play with some interesting mechanics. If someone refused to play me for trying to use it, I'd consider it a bonus that I know to avoid that player in the future. This may sound harsh but this is a Blood Angels faction detachment, and any blood angels player can use this legitimately. I should probably clarify that I wouldn't not play someone who wanted to do this. I suppose I just have a different approach to the hobby that other people. The way I see it, if you want to play Flesh Tearers, why don't you play Flesh Tearers? Just me, though. Cakes and the eating of. Incidentally, one can argue that just because it is called a fleshtearers doesn't mean anything as it's just the formation name. They pioneered the formation so logically all Blood Angels are aware that this type of formation exists and can be used. Does not the Codex Astartes allow the inclusions of new Battle Tested formations and battle doctrine? By the same logic, Blood Angels should be able to use any formation available in the Space Marines Codex as well (which would be cool), since those ones at least seem to be 'standard' Astartes formations (I wonder why they didn't include any chapter-specific ones?) The Flesh Tearers Strike Force, on the other hand, I think is supposed to represent their non-Codex structure and more unhinged nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Pretty much already been covered but my 2p given that I use this Detachment a fair bit: Few questions on this force org set up!1. It looks really good(sorry no a question) Honestly, that is debatable. A lot of my lists are themed and I use it to basically avoid spending points on Troops. If you don't need or care for Objective Secured or +1 INT on the charge, then go for it. As an aside, I've never rolled 10+ on the charge whilst using this Detachment and I even use it for my Death Company lists (Death Company receive no benefit at all from it). FTSF also gives access to the Flesh Tearers Warlord Table and Relics of Cretacia. Basically, decide if this is worth using rather than using it because you can. Also, if you want some bed time reading, there's this.2. Do you actually need to be flesh tearers to use it? I dont see why regular Blood angels couldnt use it... they sre the same models. You need to be Faction: Blood Angels to use it; it doesn't matter what Chapter you play provided you reach the aforementioned criteria. It's just a name after all. Do you think Lamenter players stop using Baal Predators because they aren't the Blood Angels Chapter?3. Can you still take Dante as your LOW choice? Why wouldn't you? 4. This force actually seems exactly the same as an allied strike force but witg more/better options! Not entirely sure what you mean by "allied strike force". Right now, we're in seventh edition. any combination of Detachment (and/or Formation) is allowed in an army, so go with it. You could quite happy run three BSFs if you wanted without concern. Allied Detachments still exist but they can't be the same Faction as the Detachment that contains your Warlord. Happy to answer any further questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Antodeniel Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I prefer the Flesh Tearers Detachment, the Warlord traits, and the special rule (Even if i would prefer the rage on a 8+....but thats whishlist). 1 - It is good. =) 2 - I play Exsanguinators chapter, only the shade a red change^^. 3 - Yes, but you know, even if Dante is a beast of war....Seth is a monster ! (If you are medium-lucky on roll, you can have 8-10 attack of S10/PA4+rending....but, you will have to always field him with a good retenue, like the company squad+3 storm shield). 4 - I'm not really sure to understand the question^^. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I'm absolutely against anyone trying to claim that 'normal' BA shouldn't be using the FTSF, its an alterative way to play with some interesting mechanics. If someone refused to play me for trying to use it, I'd consider it a bonus that I know to avoid that player in the future. This may sound harsh but this is a Blood Angels faction detachment, and any blood angels player can use this legitimately. I should probably clarify that I wouldn't not play someone who wanted to do this. I suppose I just have a different approach to the hobby that other people. The way I see it, if you want to play Flesh Tearers, why don't you play Flesh Tearers? Just me, though. Cakes and the eating of. Incidentally, one can argue that just because it is called a fleshtearers doesn't mean anything as it's just the formation name. They pioneered the formation so logically all Blood Angels are aware that this type of formation exists and can be used. Does not the Codex Astartes allow the inclusions of new Battle Tested formations and battle doctrine? By the same logic, Blood Angels should be able to use any formation available in the Space Marines Codex as well (which would be cool), since those ones at least seem to be 'standard' Astartes formations (I wonder why they didn't include any chapter-specific ones?) The Flesh Tearers Strike Force, on the other hand, I think is supposed to represent their non-Codex structure and more unhinged nature. I realise I posted my previous reply at the same time you did this, but read the link I posted above. As Faction: Blood Angels, we have access to four types of Detachment: Archangels Strike Force (SoB: Extermination), Baal Strike Force (C:BA), Combined Arms Detachment (Rulebook), Flesh Tearers Strike Force (SoB: Extermination). We also have access to sixteen formations which are Faction: BA. The name doesn't matter, what does is the Faction and with it being Faction: Blood Angels, anything goes. Would you not play a Knights of Blood player who showed up with a Baal Strike Force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 When I read Mr. Smith's post, wanted to write the same thing. You were quicker Jolemai. Detachments and formations from CAA:SM are different from the FTSF. The detachments in that book require the units to have the Space Marines Faction. No units in CAA:BA or the various Shield of Baal books are Faction Space Marines, they are all faction Blood Angels as evidenced by the winged blood drop on their datasheets. Faction Space Marines is denoted by the winged skull and sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 ... By the same logic, Blood Angels should be able to use any formation available in the Space Marines Codex as well (which would be cool), since those ones at least seem to be 'standard' Astartes formations (I wonder why they didn't include any chapter-specific ones?) The Flesh Tearers Strike Force, on the other hand, I think is supposed to represent their non-Codex structure and more unhinged nature. Whoa whoa whoa, tex. Let's not get too Logic-ey there. Logically, yes I would agree with you. But the rules are the rules and the icon at the top of the dataslate/formation tells you which army books have access to said formations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 Not entirely sure what you mean by "allied strike force". Right now, we're in seventh edition. any combination of Detachment (and/or Formation) is allowed in an army, so go with it. You could quite happy run three BSFs if you wanted without concern. Allied Detachments still exist but they can't be the same Faction as the Detachment that contains your Warlord. I should clarify my meaning for point 4. To run an allied force normally you need 1×HQ 1x Troop choice Paying for those will unlock 1 FA,Elite and HS slot. The FTSF has the same cost so you must pay for 1 hq and troop choice. However it unlocks 3x Elite, 3× Heavy and 6xFast also a LOW slot. You loose objective secured... but if you only have one troop its not much value anyway. It is far more flexible than an allied force. If you wanted you could take a scout squad and cheap priest for a kittle over 100 points, then stock up and a really elite list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildrcheese Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I think some of the best uses of this detachment are a) You want to run alot of bikes / attack bike squads (which is great) b) you want a relatively cheap way to open up more slots (probably HQ tbh) c) ASM themed list. d) drop pod taxi service The great thing about it ishow versatile it is. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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