Mech Guard vs (F)Monstrous Creatures Tips and Advice

[Aethyran]

Hi guys, at my local game club there are many new Nid players, Chaos Daemons well just about anything with lots of wounds and high toughness with some flying too. I am struggling to tackle them with my mech lists my screen of veterans with plasmaguns have done very poorly as well as rotten luck against FMCs. 

Any tips and advice?

[TiberiusHecktor]

For ground MC's, company command squads + bring it down on assorted plasma's or heavy weapons seems like the order of the day. I see a lot of mech lists that that dont take a CCS even though its the same price as a vet squad and brings tons of bonuses, even if you get fewer guys.

 

FMC is a bit more difficult, AM feel pretty limited in the AA department, especially since hydra's are terrible. If your packing an aegis there's rarely a reason to not throw in a quad gun, but being mech i assume you wont be. 

 

At that point the best option seems like flyers of your own. Vendettas or the Vulture + dual punishers being the de rigueur choice.

[librisrouge]

Vultures with punisher cannons all day long if FMCs are you issue. That many shots is impossible for even bloodthirsters to ignore and they're useful against more than just ground targets.

[Jolemai]

Did anyone else see the "F" in parenthesis and immediately think of a swear word?

[Myrkul]

Pask in a punisher, roll divination; cast prescience and perfect timing if you roll it. Should be a dead FMC.

[Warhawk Shizu]

Though I have never played a fully mechanized IG army (Only footies and now flying) I have never really felt monstrous creatures is a real issue, at least if subjected to proper fire discipline.

 

Normal MC's are best handled (as already stated) by plasma/heavy weapon+Bring it Down!. One tooled up plasma vet squad has a decent chance of blowing quite a few monstrous creatures away just there and then with a Bring it Down rapid fire volley. (Though to be safe, always have an extra lascannon/plasma gun nearby for backup. Again, the CCS can deliver this^^) The key is fire priority and giving each unit a defined role, some units kill the infantry, others the MCs. Ideally one should start plinking off a few wounds in turn 1/2 so that, when they get too close for comfort around round 3 the one plasma volley will blow them away in one fell go.

 

As for FMC they sure are a pain, but luckily guard has the right tool for the job, known as a Vendetta^^ Even if the price went up it is still extremely good at what it does, namely shooting MCs and tanks. If you want security bring an Officer of the Fleet (again, CCS!) for the lovely +1 to reserves. That, or take a look through various Forge World books as they have quite a few nifty flyers/anti-air options. The previously mentioned Vulture is brilliant, but both the Lightning and Thunderbolt can do a decent job at it. (With rocket salvos.)

 

Hope it helps and happy hunting!

[Median]

A metric shed load of ratlings generally put the fear of the emperor in most demon players, coupled with the 'bring it down' order they can be pretty nasty.

[librisrouge]

For MCs, plasmaguns become the guardsman's best friend. I rarely leave the barracks without at least ten in my army.

[WarriorFish]

I think you need to decide how you're going to deal with them, either in the air/bringing them down or waiting for them to land (if they plan to). That will help you plan your list out. As mentioned plasma is great, but you want it on the ground first so you can apply the sun fire effectively. Otherwise as Shizu said (mistake aside) the Vendetta will zip in and freem some wounds off nicely...

 

Again as mentioned orders will help maximise your effectiveness but psychic powers are an option too. My thinking is that you need good numbers too to weather the inevitable losses as you deal with it. Chances are your opponent values them highly so would take steps to protect them, which in turn could be useful in letting you predict his movements.

[Aethyran]

Oh wow thanks for the responses :D 

Still need to getting to grips with this edition, but this is an eye opener, especially with IG flyers. Time to rethink my lists and how I go about them. 

[march10k]

Vultures with punisher cannons all day long if FMCs are you issue. That many shots is impossible for even bloodthirsters to ignore and they're useful against more than just ground targets.

Oh, sure, bring forgeworld into it Vultures are good, as are thunderbolts and avengers...

If you want something from the codex, vendetta...three FMC wounds stripped per turn ain't chopped liver...if you demand that one sub-200 point model strip six flying T6 wounds in a single round of shooting, you're dreaming!

Hydras aren't "terrible," they were ZOMG Awesomesauce, including against fliers, when they weren't forced to snap-shot against ground targets...now that they're only good (but as good as ever) against fliers, suddenly they're terrible against fliers? I happen to own a fair few fliers, and none of them sneer at taking an average of three S7 hits per turn from a single cheap ground vehicle! It's actually quite terrifying from the flier's perspective...SIX S7 hits for less than the cost of the flier itself is incredible, and even snap-shooting, eight twinlinked shots from the two vehicles is good enough to handle a rhino chassis. They're not chopped liver!

[Captain Caine 24th]

The problem I think is that the flying hive tyrant is durable, and flexible as it has enough firepower to attack most units. Next to a malanthrope it'll have a 2+ cover save. To counter it really quickly probably requires some dedicated firepower--which usually isn't flexible. What I mean is, if you face 3 or of those monsters I think you probably have to build a list tailored to face it, and that type of list won't be flexible to fight other threats. 

 

Just for argument's sake, let's say I get a unit of sabre defense platforms (skyfire intercepter twinlinked lascannons), ally in an inquisitor for for a psyocculum (BS 10 against psykers for the bearer and his unit). This would probably be about 230 points. A command squad nearby could issue some good orders (at least 60pts). Kurov's aquila could fit in here as well (60 more). Unlike the tyrant which can weather a lot of attacks, or move quickly to avoid the enemy, this combo has a lot of hard counters. Though, depending on the list that's built around it, this combo has a lot of potential. And, it's possible that the pieces could be rearranged into different units depending on the threat faced. 

 

I vote for the vulture, it's flexible in most situations, has vector dancer, and doesn't require psykers, and orders. The vendetta is the similar, but less versatile, and less maneuverable. One problem I've had is if a vendetta is chasing a tyrant for 3 or 4 turns that tyrant is still dealing death. And the tyrant can shoot in any direction, the vendetta needs to maneuver.

 

An astropath for telepathy and psychic shriek might help (or a misfortune casting primaris) but the tyrant has good leadership and decent deny the witch roles. Divination can be good if you get that 4+ invuln for a blob squad--it'll negate a lot of that tyrants shooting. 

 

In the end the best luck I've ever had is ignoring them and aggressively playing to the objectives. For whatever reason Tyranids have always been the army I match up really poorly against. I'm curious to see what you find works for you. Good luck, and happy hunting.