Jazzhands Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Have not got my codex on me so thought I'd ask... If bikes and speeders form a single unit does anyone else have the problem that when the unit has been shot and any bikers killed you are left wondering which to wound rolls should now be considered for vehicle penetration? Or is it just me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 The bikes and speeders only form a single unit on paper. As soon as they hit the table they separate into 2 units. Bike unit and Speeder. Basically it's a way to give you a speeder without taking a FA Slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzhands Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 Well ive been playing that wrong! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidicul Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 The unit works like our old codec when you could add a speeder to the squad. The speeder and attack bike always operated independently of the unit. I kind of wish we could still add a speeder to the bike squad, but at least they gave us a lot of fast attack slots so it's not to bad that we can't do that anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 it does present an interesting tactical dilema when also fielding deathwing...do you separate the speeder far from the bikes to give more 12" deepstrike bubbles, or do you run them together to let the speeder markerlight for the bikes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadangel101 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 As far as I know, the bonus BS applies to the formation even when they are in combat squads. The only stipulation is that they target the same unit the land speeder did. You can accomplish that without keeping them that close to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Yeah. As the codex stands, you could have them apart at any distance and the +1BS would still take effect, as long as they are targeting the same unit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzhands Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 Well that might actually help in the tournament I am in right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I am not sure about that Formation though. 12" Deathwing is solid. I can't and won't argue here. The +1BS thing though. It either means wasting the potential firepower of the Speeder by giving it weapons that will not kill whatever it is shooting at, so the bikes can finish it, or you are risking the Speeder killing it and thus you can not benefit from it anymore. Then there is the thing about common targets. Bikes kill infantry well enough with Bolters, which are twin-linked. Speeders rarely target heavy infantry, where Grav Bikes have their best use. Vehicles targeted by a Speeder might actually die if it is optimized for killing AV. If you ask me, get this Formation for the DW bonus and do not worry too much about the +1BS. To me, it seems like jumping through hoops instead of taking advantage of being able to engage multiple units with the combat squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 It's very useful against tough targets like tanks and monstrous creatures where the speeder won't finish them in one go and then come the attack bikes and finish with the multi melta. If I had a dollar for each time a Mm failed a crucial shot I would be rich... The +1 is really golden for those moments you really need to finish something off. I would think you of all people would appreciate it because you keep saying DA tactical Marines are so lackluster compared to SM tactical because they don't have re-rolls... And now you say the +1 BS is over-rated... Well,it's not. For anything that is not twin linked in a RW army having a speeder softening it up and then other units finishing it up with better precision just manages resources much better and ensures firepower is not wasted and well managed. for example, a 4 wound monstrous creature will go down to the fire of 4 attack bikes on average instead of needing 6. The fact that you are killing a MC outright and still have 2 attack bikes to deal with another threat is just unvaluable for an army like RW that has to micro manage it's low number of specialist resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I agree and will add that its a situational bonus and not every special rule has to be used every single turn to be good. That's a bit power gamey thinking. Its better to be versatile and to be able to pull out a trick like +1 be than to use it as a crutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanSturrock Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Thing is, all the units in the formation *are useful and points-efficient already*. Getting an occasional +1 BS, and the DW no-scatter DS within 12", make them even more so. You don't have to use the +1 BS every turn if it's not advantageous to do so, just as you don't have to DS your Deathwing Knights 12" away if 10" is more useful on that particular occasion! You can use this combo in several obviously synergistic ways -- a Typhoon speeder hanging back and MM attack bikes nipping in are often going to shoot the same targets (and it's certainly worthwhile risking a non-penetrating Krak missile or two against a heavy tank so that your three multimeltas hit on 2s rather than 3s), but you could equally well go anti-infantry with a HB/HB speeder and either a bunch of HB attack bikes or (if you want to DS some termies too) a regular bike squad using its twin-linked bolters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 @ Chaplain Lucifer - You raise a good point. I suppose my opinion about the +1BS does not comes from me not appreciating it, but instead playing a lot against MSU builds. I use combat squads to engage more targets ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I play a HB + AC Landspeeder in a formation with grav guns and a MM equiped attack bike. Usually the Landspeeder will jump ahead to take shots at some infantry untill my bikes can position themselves for taking shots against bigger targets. Then the buff comes into play, with 7 shots with which to get it going. Yes, you do not need to use the buff every turn. But when it actually works it works wonders. Specially with grav guns and MMs that do not have twin linked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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