The Beast Arises

[veterannoob]

This is going to encompass far more then just orks.  We get a number of legions, imperial guard, eldar, chaos marines, they are going to toss everything at this series.

 

p.s. Waiting for the end of the horus heresy is like waiting for the 13th black crusade.  When the lord of the rings/hobbit movies ended the game system ran out of gas, would gw risk ending the story that is fueling interest in their new games ?

We did have a discussion at Convention Secundus about Beast Arises briefly and I was pleased to hear this would not be a rehashing of Orks we've seen before, but rather a whole new brutality (turn the amp up past 11, I believe it was said);) with Abnett kicking off the series that just makes me want to read it all the more. Guess that reading pile grows ever higher .

[Dumah]

I just bought the ebook subscription but I must say I'm slightly miffed that the bonus materials (including the extract from I am Slaughter) only come in epub format... What gives?!

[Morovir]

My one had a mobi file inside the folder

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I just bought the ebook subscription but I must say I'm slightly miffed that the bonus materials (including the extract from I am Slaughter) only come in epub format... What gives?!

 

zamzar.

 

free service to change to different formats

 

WLK

[Dumah]

My one had a mobi file inside the folder

 

Ah... Good call! I suppose I ought to look inside next time before I jump to conclusions.

[Morovir]

The mobi file appeared to be the entire book.

[hopkins]

is this available to buy tomorrow, or the 1 week pre-order window?

[Kelborn]

@veterannoob: how can warhammer be more brutal than it is right now? Would it not end in a bolter porn? ^^

[Morovir]

Yup, whole book

[veterannoob]

@veterannoob: how can warhammer be more brutal than it is right now? Would it not end in a bolter porn? ^^

Heh, I can only imagine more gore and bolter shells! ;p But it sounded like more point of view from Orks (doesn't always work unless done well) in some pretty brutal slaughter. Guess we'll find out tomorrow. I'm looking forward to Dan Abnett kicking off another baller series.

[caladancid]

So I stayed up all night reading the book..... (not that great of an achievement as it is shorter than the usual full length novels)

 

I have never read a 40k (32k?) novel that made me have so many questions. As usual, Dan Abnett has found a way to explore organizations in a unique way, in this case the Imperial Fists are really well done. I don't want to say too much for now, PM me if you want spoilers.

 

I will say, I literally have no clue how this will end up. Admittedly, I had forgotten all about Drakan Vangorich and the part he plays in the 32d millennium. Can't wait for the next books.

[veterannoob]

Got e audio to listen to tomorrow. I'm stoked for it. I'm glad that they are lowering the price point on the audio to match shorter novels. Looking forward to discussing it after.

[TDF]

Initial thoughts after finishing I am Slaughter:

 

The tone does feel different from either the Heresy or 40K. Rather than war everywhere all the time it's isolated on the frontier, out of sight and out of mind. The astartes feel different as well. Certainly in the first part of the novel they somehow felt less than transhuman, although in the latter half they got some of it back (particularly when they break those necks).

 

The novel felt very short, although it is harder to judge with an ebook. The fact that there's a substantial extract from Overfiend at the back felt like an attempt to make it seem like it's going to be longer, but means that the novel finishes at 89% on my ereader.

 

Spoilers: Don't read unless you want to be spoiled!

 

 

I have no idea how the Imperial Fists are going to keep going. Even if any of them somehow manage to get of Ardamantua they've got to be in a worse state than even the Crimson Fists. My guess is that the chapter will be secretly refounded from scratch, which will explain the massive cultural shift from being very focused on being the defenders of Terra to a much more proactive crusading force picking up recruits from all over the place. It'll also explain the lack of wall names in 40K.

 

Vangorich is cool. If things turn out the way we're being led to believe they will it makes him a lot more sympathetic and justified.

 

I'm not sure what the Inquisition is playing at, but they've really dropped the ball on this one.

 

People with strong feelings about the VI Legion executioner thing are going to be very pleased/displeased with one of the lines in the novel, although it could just be passed off as popular myth 1500 years after the fact.

 

I did a double-take when Lord Guilliman showed up.

 

The magos biologis seemed very human indeed. I always thought of them as basically the same as other tech priests in terms of attitude and augmentation, just with a different field of expertise.

 

I'm not sure what to make of the comments about space marines dying out in four or five centuries. This ties in with what AD-B has written about the degeneration of astartes quality over the millennia, but obviously they didn't die out. I hope we get some clarity on this one. Hopefully something better than a deus ex machina cache of lost genetech.

 

 

Whilst I enjoyed this book and look forward to reading the rest of the series I am left with a feeling of dissatisfaction. If all the books are the same length as this one I will feel that I've overpaid, even with the 25% pre-order discount.

[Marshal Rohr]

The biggest thing to take from the novel was the complete paradigm shift of the Orks from cartoon to sci-fi horror. The second biggest thing was how the geneseed wears out and eventually it will be impossible to make new space marines at all.

[caladancid]

The biggest thing to take from the novel was the complete paradigm shift of the Orks from cartoon to sci-fi horror. The second biggest thing was how the geneseed wears out and eventually it will be impossible to make new space marines at all.

 

I didn't take that as an established fact...especially since the estimate given was within 4-500 years. Clearly that part was not accurate.

 

I forgot to add earlier, the shifts from crazy battle to the boring administration proceedings was so well done. I also felt like it was a little shorter than expected.

[HamsterExAstris]

The novel felt very short, although it is harder to judge with an ebook.

It's not that hard - use a tool like Calibre to convert it into Word format, then open it in Word, strip out the extract/license in the back, and get the word count (characters / 6).

 

I Am Slaughter was about 47K words. Horus Rising was about 105K. The Unremembered Empire was about 89K.

[TDF]

 

The novel felt very short, although it is harder to judge with an ebook.

It's not that hard - use a tool like Calibre to convert it into Word format, then open it in Word, strip out the extract/license in the back, and get the word count (characters / 6).

 

I Am Slaughter was about 47K words. Horus Rising was about 105K. The Unremembered Empire was about 89K.

It's harder to judge when you're actually reading it. Sure you can open it up in a different program and spend five minutes messing around with it, but you don't get the same immediate feedback you get from a physical book.

[A D-B]

The biggest thing to take from the novel was the complete paradigm shift of the Orks from cartoon to sci-fi horror. The second biggest thing was how the geneseed wears out and eventually it will be impossible to make new space marines at all.

 

Well. I mean. I wouldn't take that second thing as gospel, exactly. Yes, in the 40K sense that everything is in decline, but... I mean... remember poetic license and all.

[A D-B]

 This ties in with what AD-B has written about the degeneration of astartes quality over the millennia, but obviously they didn't die out. I hope we get some clarity on this one. 

 

Chaos Marines look at Space Marines and see versions of themselves that are savagely controlled through rigorous hypno-indoctrination (rather than brought in through Legion culture and essentially free-willed), occasionally mind-wiped by other factions of the Imperium (rather than living unrestrained however they choose), separate from the Imperium but ultimately beholden to it (rather than the masters of it, as the Legions once were), and divided into Chapters of sleek, vicious, undeniable utility to fulfil a surgical battlefield role (rather than the free-spirited warbands of the Legions, able to unite whenever they want, kill whomever they choose, and reach whatever size they can). They're also made by clinical, slow-burning, ritualised repetitions of an ancient process now only inflicted upon children (rather than granted much more freely and liberally).

 

Chaos Marines have a lot to look down on Space Marines for, from their perspective. Of course, the flip side is that all of those changes were necessary to prevent the Imperium falling to pieces, and Space Marines will look down on Chaos Marines in much the same way, seeing their 'virtues' as weaknesses and flaws.

 

But that's what Chaos Marines are seeing and saying when they encounter Space Marines. They're not pointing out specific gene-seed degeneration. They're calling them "thin-bloods" and "echoes" because of the process and the end result being so caged, contained, controlled, and different to what it once was. Chaos Marines regard Space Marines as pathetic versions of themselves (blithely ignoring all of their own flaws at times, and the treacheries that made ritualised Space Marine creation so necessary and ultimately so interesting as to capture readers' imaginations for decades.)

 

Neither of them are right, of course. They're both as interesting as each other, just in different ways. But they both regard their own genesis and end result as superior.  

 

EDIT: All of that is, natch, in addition to general lore/gene-seed degradation that we know of, like Chapters losing stuff and mutating and whatever else. 

 

On a related note, this ties into the Lucifer myth, and Abaddon's own anger. Lucifer saw God granting souls and special gifts to a bunch of monkeys, and couldn't believe God would ignore his first, more perfect creations, the angels, in such a way. Abaddon sees an Imperium of undeniably strong but soul-crippled Marines in the wake of the Emperor casting his first creations aside. The Legions were made to build the Imperium, and when they did... look what happened. The Emperor abandoned them, half of the primarchs went mad one way or another, and now the Space Marine Ideal - the conquerors of the galaxy - have been reduced (in his eyes) to cripples and stunted slaves.

 

And, like everyone in 40K, he's right and wrong at the same time.  

[veterannoob]

The biggest thing to take from the novel was the complete paradigm shift of the Orks from cartoon to sci-fi horror. The second biggest thing was how the geneseed wears out and eventually it will be impossible to make new space marines at all.

That's a good way to put it! I was searching for the words on how these Orks are different. Just went through Overfiend last week so my green Orky pallet is ready for this next iteration of Waaaagh!

;)

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

The biggest thing to take from the novel was the complete paradigm shift of the Orks from cartoon to sci-fi horror. The second biggest thing was how the geneseed wears out and eventually it will be impossible to make new space marines at all.

Well. I mean. I wouldn't take that second thing as gospel, exactly. Yes, in the 40K sense that everything is in decline, but... I mean... remember poetic license and all.

But for all intents and purposes it wouldn't be possible to have a Legion anymore, right? There just wouldn't be enough geneseed to go around. It's a scarce resource. There's plenty for a long time, but not forever?

 

Edit: Also, will the Orks be portrayed like this more frequently. It felt like a cross between your Orks at Armageddon and the Orks of the Heresy. I can't get enough of it. For the first time in a long time it felt like the Uruk Hai style Orks I always wanted.

 

I should also point out it's the first non-heresy book that I've thoroughly enjoyed in a long time that wasn't Talon of Horus or the Ahriman books.

[TDF]

 

 This ties in with what AD-B has written about the degeneration of astartes quality over the millennia, but obviously they didn't die out. I hope we get some clarity on this one. 

 

Chaos Marines look at Space Marines and see versions of themselves that are savagely controlled through rigorous hypno-indoctrination (rather than brought in through Legion culture and essentially free-willed), occasionally mind-wiped by other factions of the Imperium (rather than living unrestrained however they choose), separate from the Imperium but ultimately beholden to it (rather than the masters of it, as the Legions once were), and divided into Chapters of sleek, vicious, undeniable utility to fulfil a surgical battlefield role (rather than the free-spirited warbands of the Legions, able to unite whenever they want, kill whomever they choose, and reach whatever size they can). They're also made by clinical, slow-burning, ritualised repetitions of an ancient process now only inflicted upon children (rather than granted much more freely and liberally).

 

Chaos Marines have a lot to look down on Space Marines for, from their perspective. Of course, the flip side is that all of those changes were necessary to prevent the Imperium falling to pieces, and Space Marines will look down on Chaos Marines in much the same way, seeing their 'virtues' as weaknesses and flaws.

 

But that's what Chaos Marines are seeing and saying when they encounter Space Marines. They're not pointing out specific gene-seed degeneration. They're calling them "thin-bloods" and "echoes" because of the process and the end result being so caged, contained, controlled, and different to what it once was. Chaos Marines regard Space Marines as pathetic versions of themselves (blithely ignoring all of their own flaws at times, and the treacheries that made ritualised Space Marine creation so necessary and ultimately so interesting as to capture readers' imaginations for decades.)

 

Neither of them are right, of course. They're both as interesting as each other, just in different ways. But they both regard their own genesis and end result as superior.  

 

EDIT: All of that is, natch, in addition to general lore/gene-seed degradation that we know of, like Chapters losing stuff and mutating and whatever else. 

 

On a related note, this ties into the Lucifer myth, and Abaddon's own anger. Lucifer saw God granting souls and special gifts to a bunch of monkeys, and couldn't believe God would ignore his first, more perfect creations, the angels, in such a way. Abaddon sees an Imperium of undeniably strong but soul-crippled Marines in the wake of the Emperor casting his first creations aside. The Legions were made to build the Imperium, and when they did... look what happened. The Emperor abandoned them, half of the primarchs went mad one way or another, and now the Space Marine Ideal - the conquerors of the galaxy - have been reduced (in his eyes) to cripples and stunted slaves.

 

And, like everyone in 40K, he's right and wrong at the same time.  

 

I was referring more to what you've written about Sigismund and how as a 30K marine it's not unreasonable to expect him to live for over a thousand years, compared to 40K where geneseed has degraded such that it is unheard of except for Dante.

[Marshal Rohr]

I really cannot express how cool these Orks were. Using rail guns to shoot shaped meteors? To cool. Ghazghkull could take a lesson or two. I also found it interesting the Imperial Fists didn't seem to be a codex chapter. Now, I'm not so juvenile to think that just because squads weren't described like the unit entry that means the chapter doesn't follow the codex, but very little about their description matched with what they were saying about the surgical implementation of marines. They still use breachers, which I hope means in the next codex space marines there is a 'breacher' unit.

 

I'm hoping this lead to an era in the fiction when the codex is realized into less of an organizational document and described with more flexibility. There is no reason why the organization of chapters should be so confined.

[Felix Antipodes]

I have a gut feeling that the IF will (just) scrape through with enough bodies to restore the Chapter. The story even talks about it being supplemented by their successors as a means to do so. The transition to the IF of 40K probably starts from this as several characters seemed to harbour doubts about their current modus operandi and how it lead to this disaster.

On the gene-seed discussion, I read it as a theory held by many of this era but not as a proven fact. A reread of the relevant paragraph just now does nothing to convince me it was given as a fact, although a case could be made that they could (at a stretch) been referring to the longevity of Astartes rather than their gene-seed itself, which would tie into TDF's post about why only BA seem to live for so long in the 40K era.

One query - Are the Chromes actually the Hrudd (sp?) or am I seeing similarities that aren't really there?

[Marshal Rohr]

I was rushing when  I first posted. I was looking at it from the persepective of old legion recruitment practices comparable to now. The fluff has always supported degrading geneseed over time, giving marines a 'shelf' life, but in the context in the novel its insinuated that it wouldn't be possible to built a massive force of space marines to rival the legions anymore. I've been waiting for an explanation like that for years, because it makes the 1000 many chapter more believably. Hopefully as the series goes on we can see the genius of the codex allowing different chapters to be brought together to fight like a legion under a Magister Militium to finally connect the dots between 1000 man chapters ability to fight big wars. 

 

Its always been there, but the mechanics of it are not thoroughly explained. Like ADB mentioned a chapters MO is the surgical strike, which doesn't work in all scenarios. In the scenarios where the enemy is so tough marines have to revert to a conventional style strategy, it would require an integration of the chain of command to succeed. If this series is able to believably detail that, then I will have no reason to complain about how the codex is portrayed in the sourcebooks.