Nazguire Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 If there's one thing about this series that is still making me grit my teeth, it's the Beast himself. After ten books of utter and complete SLAUGHTER by his legions it pretty much goes without saying that he is far and away the Greatest Ork to Ever Live. And for all that there's still so, so, SO much we don't know about him. Where did he come from? Why is he so much greater? By The Khagan, we've still barely even heard him Speak! If the final books blurb is anything to go by, next month the Beast will finally meet his end (and let me tell you, considering the madness we discovered in The Last Son of Dorn, that end has gotta be a doozy). It's the last chance we'll ever get to maybe learn Something about him other than his favorite catchphrase, but considering who knows what it will take to bring him down, I'm not sure they'll cover it even then. Maybe the entire book will be dedicated to pulling off this last attempt and all we'll ever know about the Beast personally is his fighting style. What do you think? Do any of you want even a small chapter written from his perspective? To see where he comes from? I'm all on board this. Needs something to flesh him out and how he's managed to become The Emperor of the Orks. Doing that will help kill two birds with one stone: who he is and how the Orks got to be like this, and could they ever again? I think Vulkan's sacrifice will come back into play in the last book, tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 I wouldn't be surprised lol. Mechanicus will solve it fo sure. I was not talking about us as readers. I meant the "in universe" Templars, the fictional ones. Haven't read the books but I'm curious... Vulkan does show up, only to die again? And it nearly didn't matter? Is he in a dead-but-can-come-back state or really ferrus-dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 It's not explicitly stated just how dead he is. He detonated his hammer whilst kind of soul connected to the "Green Roar" / Waaagh energy. He could be toast or he could resurrect somewhere. Let's just hope if he does that his Hammer flung him through the warp to a safe planet if he does. Also it does matter to the Imperium. They know they have lost a legend but the Astartes aren't ones to openly start crying about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazguire Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 It's not explicitly stated just how dead he is. He detonated his hammer whilst kind of soul connected to the "Green Roar" / Waaagh energy. He could be toast or he could resurrect somewhere. Let's just hope if he does that his Hammer flung him through the warp to a safe planet if he does. Also it does matter to the Imperium. They know they have lost a legend but the Astartes aren't ones to openly start crying about it. Honestly, based on the context of the whole book, and how it made like he was marching towards his final doom, I'd say he's dead, or at least for the remainder of any appearance in a 40k novel. Which is fine with me. I feel like his presence in the books was wasted, but then we may see what his actual sacrifice has properly achieved apart from some scar tissue on The Beast in the last book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 It's not explicitly stated just how dead he is. He detonated his hammer whilst kind of soul connected to the "Green Roar" / Waaagh energy. He could be toast or he could resurrect somewhere. Let's just hope if he does that his Hammer flung him through the warp to a safe planet if he does. Also it does matter to the Imperium. They know they have lost a legend but the Astartes aren't ones to openly start crying about it. Honestly, based on the context of the whole book, and how it made like he was marching towards his final doom, I'd say he's dead, or at least for the remainder of any appearance in a 40k novel. Which is fine with me. I feel like his presence in the books was wasted, but then we may see what his actual sacrifice has properly achieved apart from some scar tissue on The Beast in the last book. The problem is we don't have another character of his magnitude. Everyone else is blank and haven't been much prominent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Koorland is now dead, thus the Imperial Fists being truly extinct and ripe for this shoehorned-in 2nd founding to take over. I have a question about that: Every Chapter has non-combat members, often Marines of advanced age, who are responsible for administrative matters or for the recruitment and trianing of new initiates. So even if all the companies of a Chapter are completely wiped out, that personell would still be there, ready to recruit and train new members. Were the books explicit in that all of that staff of the Imperial Fists Chapter had been wiped out as well? Did they bring all of them with them to the campaign? Or did the Orks land on Terra and demolish the Imperial Fists Headquarters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 The Imperial Fists don't have a headquarters on Terra. They have the Phalanx. And it was explicitly mentioned that the Phalanx was emptied of every single astartes. Are there still chapter serfs there? Sure. But no astartes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 In older lore the Imperial Fists had a Chapter Fortress on Terra, until they became a fleet based Chapter, but I am not sure the newer lore makes any comment on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopkins Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Regarding that ending because of the injured sister not getting far away enough, the psy-bomb didn't go off as planned? i cannot see how the humies can win now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Mechanicus dudes. They will cook up something. I'm amazed how the BT High Marshall is still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Faith. Zeal. These are the things that kept him going. Oh and hating the Xeno. A lot. I don't see how they can win either. Vulkan couldn't do it and he was the strongest of the Primarchs. I'm looking forward to seeing how it all gets "resolved" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Who is the Marine on the front of the Novel "The Beheading" ? I wonder if it's Koorland gone all Marneus-Robot-Calgar mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 It should be Thane. He's got longer hair than Koorland, whose was close-cropped in The Last Son of Dorn and I Am Slaughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Isn't Thanes name scribbled on Dorn fist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 I also read in the book that it states one of the Marines had been fighting for over 7 centuries!!! That seems such a long time when most get needed relatively "quickly" in 40k. Or is it a nod to the relatively peaceful times prior to the Beast awakens plot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 The latter, I'd assume. There really hadn't been much to do since the Scouring. That was the timeframe of peace and supposed prosperity, before everything went to hell again. Sure, there was one first Black Crusade, but the impact of that was minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Valrak Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Isn't Thanes name scribbled on Dorn fist? It is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Zerberyn's Marines might be the Chapter rebuilt, and Thane'll just take charge when they get back to not sleeping with their IW honey bunnies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caladancid Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 Did anyone else catch the Grey Knight retcon? I think it was a change anyway. The idea that Veritus and Weinand bargain control of the GK in exchange for the DW in M32 seems in direct conflict to the idea that the GK always were some form of Inquisition doesn't it? Not to mention that the current DW fluff says they are not subordinate to the Inquisition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Uveron Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 Did anyone else catch the Grey Knight retcon? I think it was a change anyway. The idea that Veritus and Weinand bargain control of the GK in exchange for the DW in M32 seems in direct conflict to the idea that the GK always were some form of Inquisition doesn't it? Not to mention that the current DW fluff says they are not subordinate to the Inquisition. Not Subordinate in the M41... Thats still a long time for changes to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xisor Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Did anyone else catch the Grey Knight retcon? I think it was a change anyway. The idea that Veritus and Weinand bargain control of the GK in exchange for the DW in M32 seems in direct conflict to the idea that the GK always were some form of Inquisition doesn't it? Not to mention that the current DW fluff says they are not subordinate to the Inquisition. EYHBTIAL, my dear. EYHBTIAL. You're also absolutely atrocious at even trying to be cryptic with regards spoilers. All of you. Shameful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Potato of Mankind Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 To be fair, why click on a discussion thread about the book then? What do you think is going to be discussed here, other than the book contents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Mechanicus dudes. They will cook up something. I'm amazed how the BT High Marshall is still alive. That's plot armour - to get that blast and have all appendages still attached to his body - REALLY? He is more powerful than the God Empra lol Tech priests will cook something good for sure Isn't Thanes name scribbled on Dorn fist? It is. Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Yes indeed is plot armour. I was expecting him to be dead tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xisor Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 To be fair, why click on a discussion thread about the book then? What do you think is going to be discussed here, other than the book contents? It's actually a thread about a series of books that are in progress, but you're quite right - I've been avoiding this thread like the plague since it was released. (And still managed to have it spoiled.) My return to the thread is only because I've since read the book. But my good cheer at the top-notch quality of the book's prose aside, I happen to think it's a sufficiently good book that *other people* would enjoy more if it weren't comprehensively, carelessly spoiled by everyone and anyone at the drop of a hat. Mankind deserves better. --- As it is, I loved the book. Pace is excellent, topics and characters all neatly done. I think I agree on principle that this sort of thing 'deserves' a deeper treatment - my only reservation is: BL have been at this for over a decade. It's also a product at the end of GW's "loot everything and sell your gran"period. My hope is two-fold: - BL feel emboldened by this, and see the worth of going off piste more often. - they do more of this sort of thing. Great experiment; not 100% successful, but as said before: I'm ecstatic they're even trying. (And mostly succeeding.) --- My bet (and I've believed it since book 2 [?]) for the series' ultimate ending - DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT A DISTRACTING/SPECULATIVE THOUGHT IN YOUR HEAD FOR THE NEXT TWO BOOKS: Vangorich executes the High Lords, as per. Krule finishes the job and executes the last existing High Lord of Terra: Vangorich. Krule becomes one of the new high lords, or at least the Master of Assassins. The Beast Krule, arisen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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