Cleanse And Purify Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 My inability to take jokes about this is because of how people can be incalculably crappy about it. It's used as one of the most bizarre, evidenceless accusations that sounds great and makes an easy soundbite ("lol waifu lol") that I've long since lost my sense of humour about it. "lol waifu lol" "Well, Altani is a metaphor for a threefold concept: Sevatar's sterility, his distance from humanity, and his savage sense of isolation and distance from his own Legion despite being glorified by them, and her presence plays into a fourth aspect, discussed later. You see the same allusions elsewhere in Sev's life, where he talks about not understanding other people's jokes or knowing what to say to them - a play on Space Marine angelic/inhuman/transhuman 'autism' - but taken to a sociopathic extreme, from a lot of my reading regarding serial killers. Add that to his repeated desire to work out just what side he's on amidst the hypocrisy of ignorance and selfishness, and those claiming to follow ideals that he doesn't care about. That also ties in with his desire to see the Night Lords accept their place as the Legion was intended to be - which he references a few times - as the bringers of terrifying, merciless justice, not simple slaughter and pleasure in terror. Which links back to Altani perfectly, since he exacts revenge for her not because he's nice, but because she has been wronged. This also makes Sev a counterpoint to Talos, because Talos's core beliefs were essentially delusion: even his own brothers told him the 'pure' wars he wanted to fight had never been in the Legion's history, but Talos was blind and insisted on seeing the best of what might be, and idolises the Night Haunter as that avatar of justice. There's even a quote where the Night Haunter says he cares nothing for what the Legion has become, but Talos stands there, takes it, and worships his father for centuries after, despite that - a showing of the unbreakable faith most Space Marines have in their primarch and refusal to see the flaws of one's idols. Sev, however, isn't so lost in Gothic romanticism; he realises the Legion deviated from its course the moment the Night Haunter entered the Legion's life, and he's slowly learning that the father that defended him, trained him, and loved him all these years is actually the cancer eating away at the Legion's heart. Altani is the very first time in his life that - at rock bottom, with nothing to lose and everything stripped away from him - he's able to follow a path of what he sees the Night Lords could have been. It took me a long time to think up and decide how to--" "lol ADB space marine girlfriends" "...um, right, but in half my books the human perspective characters are male, so--" "waifus" "Ah. Right. I... I see." (...and I just realised this a TBA thread, so with an apology for being off-topic I'll bounce out of here!) So, all I'm learning from this entire string of poorly-made jokes is that if you poke fun at Aaron's books long enough, he gives you beautiful expositions on the writing process behind the decisions he makes for their overall narratives. Which of course just encourages me to keep making terrible jokes so Aaron will keep telling me why they're wrong with these wonderful mini-essays. ... I may be taking away the wrong lesson from all of this don't hurt me ADB, you're the best, write everything for GW ever please EDIT: All poor attempts at humor aside, I am sorry for making cracks about the characters in The Long Night and Talon of Horus. Didn't realize it was such a sore spot (though I probably should've guessed). I really do enjoy everything you've written, and for what it's worth, everything you posted made perfect sense. Which you know, since you wrote it. Er uh ahem, yes. Sorry. Back to our regularly scheduled programming, and so on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4520870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 So how will the beasts die? Ma money is on the mechanicus. They will cook something up and just blow up the planet. Imperium is spent. Going in there a third time will just be beating a dead horse Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4520910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Think that Ullanor will soon be ready to charge at Terra. The Necron World Engine? A giant webway portal opening a black whole inside of Ullanor? A black Crusade of Abaddon? Angron unleashed? How were these black planet killer fortresses called which Abbadon would capture during the Gothic War again? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4520930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 So how will the beasts die? Ma money is on the mechanicus. They will cook something up and just blow up the planet. Imperium is spent. Going in there a third time will just be beating a dead horse I kinda hope they don't die. Â That they're still out there like some of the loyalist primarchs. Â That maybe one or two of them led a forgotten Waaagh! in the intermittent millennia but for the most part are just one more forgotten horror that the galaxy holds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4520934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016         There is one rule in all fandoms that cannot be broken.  Ship happens. Um...well I was joking about the whole astropath girlfriend thing. A lot (okay, like three) of ADB's stories have otherwise inhuman murder-machines with a soft-spot for some mortal woman http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296283-chaotic-thoughts-after-reading-talon-of-horus-spoiler-alert/page-2?do=findComment&comment=3825637 I too have a soft-spot for mortal women in my everyday life, that's fine Aaron.  My inability to take jokes about this is because of how people can be incalculably crappy about it. It's used as one of the most bizarre, evidenceless accusations that sounds great and makes an easy soundbite ("lol waifu lol") that I've long since lost my sense of humour about it.  "lol waifu lol"  "Well, Altani is a metaphor for a threefold concept: Sevatar's sterility, his distance from humanity, and his savage sense of isolation and distance from his own Legion despite being glorified by them, and her presence plays into a fourth aspect, discussed later. You see the same allusions elsewhere in Sev's life, where he talks about not understanding other people's jokes or knowing what to say to them - a play on Space Marine angelic/inhuman/transhuman 'autism' - but taken to a sociopathic extreme, from a lot of my reading regarding serial killers. Add that to his repeated desire to work out just what side he's on amidst the hypocrisy of ignorance and selfishness, and those claiming to follow ideals that he doesn't care about. That also ties in with his desire to see the Night Lords accept their place as the Legion was intended to be - which he references a few times - as the bringers of terrifying, merciless justice, not simple slaughter and pleasure in terror. Which links back to Altani perfectly, since he exacts revenge for her not because he's nice, but because she has been wronged. This also makes Sev a counterpoint to Talos, because Talos's core beliefs were essentially delusion: even his own brothers told him the 'pure' wars he wanted to fight had never been in the Legion's history, but Talos was blind and insisted on seeing the best of what might be, and idolises the Night Haunter as that avatar of justice. There's even a quote where the Night Haunter says he cares nothing for what the Legion will become after his death, but Talos stands there, takes it, and worships his father for centuries after, despite that - a showing of the unbreakable faith most Space Marines have in their primarch and refusal to see the flaws of one's idols. Sev, however, isn't so lost in Gothic romanticism; he realises/believes the Legion deviated from its course the moment the Night Haunter entered the Legion's life, and he's slowly learning that the father that defended him, trained him, and loved him all these years is (he believes) actually the cancer eating away at the Legion's heart, and the fulcrum where it all went wrong. You see that embodied when he asks the Night Haunter if he tried any other methods of pacifying Nostramo, in that bitter argument between them. Altani is the very first time in his life that - at rock bottom, with nothing to lose and everything stripped away from him - he's able to follow a path of what he sees the Night Lords could have been. It took me a long time to think up and decide how to--"  "lol ADB space marine girlfriends"  "...um, right, but in half my books the human perspective characters are male, so--"  "waifus"  "Ah. Right. I... I see."    (...and I just realised this a TBA thread, so with an apology for being off-topic I'll bounce out of here!) I would love to hear the rest of that :o  Is it typed out anywhere? On another thread? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4520970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Dougal Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 I'm going to put Beasts in my own personal fan-version of the End Times. Ghazkull or somebody else is gonna find an Ork Attack Moon, maybe a Beast corpse, and the residual Waaagh energy is going to trigger his own metamorphosis and turn him into the next Blacky. (Yeah, that's right. I'm not dropping my names for them until an official book tells me otherwise.) By the time of the final battle, it'll be a 5-way brawl between the Returned Primarchs, the Daemon Primarchs, the Beasts of Ullanor, the Phoenix Lords, and maybe the Necron Whatever-they-decide-to-use. Oh, and Tau. Cause naturally the Tau will develop a new battlesuit that'll let O'Kais go toe-to-toe with living demigods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4520973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Why do I have a giant Tau VOLTRON in my mind after reading your post? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4520978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Dougal Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 So here's a crazy question for all of you; I'm not sure it belongs in this forum, but I can't think of anywhere else to put it. Â I really, really, really want to see some good artwork of the Beasts. (Screw spoilers, in a week the next book is coming out) Like, honest to Emperor epic scale and detailed pictures of each of them. My imagination is pretty good at drawing pictures in my head, but there's still a difference between that and a well-drawn fight scene between Vulkan and Blacky. If these beings are meant to be the apex predators of their species then they should show it. Â Now, there are still two books left, so there might be a chance one of them will have a picture gallery of them. But if they don't, then I'd like to try something (here's the question part): Would any of you here be interested in funding some kind of Kickstarter or donation pool, with the goal being to hire a professional artist to draw appropriately awesome artwork of The Six Beasts? I myself would be willing to pony up a hundred bucks to it, but there's no way I can afford to have all Six done justly by myself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4521897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I mean you could just go to deviantart and ask some of the better artists out there if that's something they're interested in and they'll just do it whenever they feel like it...won't be official, but w/e. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4521901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 The store pages for Shadow of Ullanor and The Beheading are up on BL. Including extracts!  The extract for The Beheading basically confirms that  The Beast(s) are dead by the end of Shadow of Ullanor. Victory celebration!  Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4522007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I say that Angron will take their skulls. ^^ Â But in all seriousness, I don't see any reasonable solution besides heavy plot armor. :/ Â Maybe via the black fortresses or how where these planet killers called again? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4522065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
klisof Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 The imperium didn't know how to use the alien superweapons on the Blackstone fortress or the propulsion systems.  The admech just hacked the power grid and installed flight bays and human weapon systems. Then Abandon figured out how to activate them and decided to go GTA on them. Unless Veritus turns out to have the instruction manual and control codes for the Blackstone fortresses and it's just been forgotten by the time of the gothic war. He seems to be a Deus ex machina for finding things :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4522212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopkins Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 I'm still expecting, after Inquisition and Eldar warnings, that Chaos is somehow behind the Ork threat. How? I have no idea, but the set up is there  Either that, or the Grey Knights come surfing in on Phalanx or something daft Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4522427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Wasn't it mentioned that the GK numbered nearly in Legion size when Malcador returned to them?  Maybe they will battle the Beasts, die in thousands and be reduced to about normal chapter size? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4522440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Grey Knights won't save the day. It will be the Mechanicus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4522442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Wasn't it mentioned that the GK numbered nearly in Legion size when Malcador returned to them? Â Maybe they will battle the Beasts, die in thousands and be reduced to about normal chapter size? Malcador died before their training was complete though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4522734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Yeah, you're right. I forgot about that. Â And I had a look, they were about 1000 brothers. So forget what I' said. ^^" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4522747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Just finished it. Good read. Liked the beginning but the end was a bit underwhelming in my opinion. Maybe because I didn't knew what to expect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4524731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morovir Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 One thing I didn't like throughout the series is   the change in the character of Grand Provost Marshal Zeck. He has gone from a man uninterested by the political intrigues of his compatriots, being instead focused on the management of Terra's crime, to a wholly political animal said to be blind to corruption. It seems a rather large character change.  Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4524738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 If that is a great character change for you, read Butlers Djihad by Frank Herbert. There, a slave becomes the leader of the entire human realm because of symbolism, treachery and manipulation. Â A great series. Seriously. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4524750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Marshall Behemond suddenly becoming the High Marshall. Dunno if I missed something lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4524769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morovir Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 He's been High Marshall for most of the series, I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4524772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 He's been High Marshall for most of the series, I think. If I am not mistaken first book he was Marshall. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4524779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morovir Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Most. From Book 5 he is High Marshal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4524804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Ah. Which is weird lol did I miss something Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/41/#findComment-4524815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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