The Beast Arises

[HeritorA]

So who of both of you will invite the other on a romantic candlelight dinner and a drink?

LOL, don't know yet - how about an Italian place like bluntblade said via the Skype link from the different part of the World ;)

[Felix Antipodes]

Finished my review of the book over here. Emperor be damned, that was tough. I'd have prefered a Life-Eater Virus on Ullanor over what actually happened in the book. Massive disappointment.

Your review articulated the disappointment and sadness I felt after reading this instalment. It almost felt as if the editors stuffed up and sent the same plot line to both authors and then did a quick rewrite after realising their error (shrug).

 

I just hope that they learn from the mistakes made if/when they attempt a similar, closed end series, as I really like the concept if not this particular ending. And Rob? Restore our faith and knock it out of the park with Vol 12

[DarkChaplain]

The last volume is being handled by Guy Haley, not Rob, so he'll have to come back with something else

[Felix Antipodes]

Doh!...and I knew that too, which makes it worse.

[DarkChaplain]

Anyway, the best? thing I can say about Shadow of Ullanor is that it gives me ample material to address in my series round-up ramblings once I'm done with The Beheading. What went wrong, what could have been done instead, all that. The Imperial Fists' Idealism vs Pragmatism angle especially is something I'd like to discuss in more depth later, because I feel that Koorland and Thane, Fists and Exemplars, could have made for a neat shift there.

[caladancid]

I am in a weird position with this series. I actually liked almost every book individually, and think the authors did a great job with what they had. I am very disappointed in the overall story and how it has ended up being tied together.

 

I am left feeling like nothing really mattered. Vulkan? A throwaway (what a waste of showing a primarch is still alive). Imperial Fists? Chapter wiped out for no reason. Sisters of Silence were basically a plot device and nothing more, after their introduction they just followed around the army as needed.

 

A positive is that even with multiple authors, I felt that characters who were fleshed out tended to stay consistent in tone across novels.

 

Authors wrote well. Whoever was in charge of editing and overall continuity appears to have been overwhelmed by the management requirements of the series.

[veterannoob]

I am in a weird position with this series. I actually liked almost every book individually, and think the authors did a great job with what they had. I am very disappointed in the overall story and how it has ended up being tied together.

I am left feeling like nothing really mattered. Vulkan? A throwaway (what a waste of showing a primarch is still alive). Imperial Fists? Chapter wiped out for no reason. Sisters of Silence were basically a plot device and nothing more, after their introduction they just followed around the army as needed.

A positive is that even with multiple authors, I felt that characters who were fleshed out tended to stay consistent in tone across novels.

Authors wrote well. Whoever was in charge of editing and overall continuity appears to have been overwhelmed by the management requirements of the series.

It was the first time they did a project this specific though continuity is naturally something any series needs. LJ Goulding does a bang-up job in the Heresy. Parts 4-12 were written after a long break in pretty quick succession with 3-4 books being done close to the same time so they did a lot of consulting one another. Overall I think they did a fine job, even if a character had to die or not die impacting the next book. :)

I'm hoping the one they are doing now is Age of Apostacy but one day I demand a series on the Unification Wars. Hey, maybe it'll spark at the very least a board game.

[Jareddm]

I am in a weird position with this series. I actually liked almost every book individually, and think the authors did a great job with what they had. I am very disappointed in the overall story and how it has ended up being tied together.

I am left feeling like nothing really mattered. Vulkan? A throwaway (what a waste of showing a primarch is still alive). Imperial Fists? Chapter wiped out for no reason. Sisters of Silence were basically a plot device and nothing more, after their introduction they just followed around the army as needed.

A positive is that even with multiple authors, I felt that characters who were fleshed out tended to stay consistent in tone across novels.

Authors wrote well. Whoever was in charge of editing and overall continuity appears to have been overwhelmed by the management requirements of the series.

It was the first time they did a project this specific though continuity is naturally something any series needs. LJ Goulding does a bang-up job in the Heresy. Parts 4-12 were written after a long break in pretty quick succession with 3-4 books being done close to the same time so they did a lot of consulting one another. Overall I think they did a fine job, even if a character had to die or not die impacting the next book. :)

I'm hoping the one they are doing now is Age of Apostacy but one day I demand a series on the Unification Wars. Hey, maybe it'll spark at the very least a board game.

Though I don't believe Laurie was involved in TBA at all beyond simply knowing the major plot twists.

[DukeLeto69]

I am in a weird position with this series. I actually liked almost every book individually, and think the authors did a great job with what they had. I am very disappointed in the overall story and how it has ended up being tied together.

 

I am left feeling like nothing really mattered. Vulkan? A throwaway (what a waste of showing a primarch is still alive). Imperial Fists? Chapter wiped out for no reason. Sisters of Silence were basically a plot device and nothing more, after their introduction they just followed around the army as needed.

 

A positive is that even with multiple authors, I felt that characters who were fleshed out tended to stay consistent in tone across novels.

 

Authors wrote well. Whoever was in charge of editing and overall continuity appears to have been overwhelmed by the management requirements of the series.

Yeah I am with you on that. The books are generally pretty good in isolation but the series has problems. Mostly missed opportunities of arguably pointless plot points (Vulkan is the biggest...I said before that Vulkan should have reappeared within the "green" to fight the Beast from "the other side" distracting him sufficiently to give the Imperials a fighting chance). Also what about those PrimeOrks? Were they a late introduction/invention by David Guymer? Great idea and plot twist that is subsequently wasted by Rob Sanders.

 

I do have wonder whether David Guymer just hit it out of the park with Last Son of Dorn and basically torpedoed Rob Sanders' Shadow of Ullanor plot so that the latter looks like a retread? The blame there comes down to the editorial team. Apparently there were lots of author/editor collective meetings? If so then who thought it would be a good idea to attack Ullanor THREE times. How could that come across as anything other than repetitive.

 

HOWEVER... I have enjoyed the series and some of the books were great (Gav Thorpe in particular did a great job). I LOVE the idea of a serialised story focused around a single key event from the W40k timeline and REALLY hope BL do more in the future. However, they will hopefully have learned some lessons and realise for this to work satisfactorily it needs fantastic planning and editorial control and possibly a smaller author team (12 books between 4 authors each writing 3 of them).

[HeritorA]

Doh!...and I knew that too, which makes it worse.

Why?

I am in a weird position with this series. I actually liked almost every book individually, and think the authors did a great job with what they had. I am very disappointed in the overall story and how it has ended up being tied together.

I am left feeling like nothing really mattered. Vulkan? A throwaway (what a waste of showing a primarch is still alive). Imperial Fists? Chapter wiped out for no reason. Sisters of Silence were basically a plot device and nothing more, after their introduction they just followed around the army as needed.

A positive is that even with multiple authors, I felt that characters who were fleshed out tended to stay consistent in tone across novels.

Authors wrote well. Whoever was in charge of editing and overall continuity appears to have been overwhelmed by the management requirements of the series.

So true. I think the editors should have seen a major part of inconsistencies. Or they simply don't know what 'Phalanx' is

[Red_Shift]

Just finished shadow of ullanor which I thought was great. I would say it was one of the best in the series. The previous book was a bit meh. All that build up and then koorland just written off. Then again I prefer the politics to the fighting so I often warm less to the books with lots of action.

[Tiger9gamer]

Soooo anyone else think the iron warriors and first company storyline was a waste of paper? So far i'm a few chapters into shadows of ullanor and that one scene almost made me wanna stop reading. Something about how they introduced each psyker and this badass inquisitor before killing them off due to Deus Ex Machina

[DarkChaplain]

Soooo anyone else think the iron warriors and first company storyline was a waste of paper? So far i'm a few chapters into shadows of ullanor and that one scene almost made me wanna stop reading. Something about how they introduced each psyker and this badass inquisitor before killing them off due to Deus Ex Machina

 

That chapter also had them lamenting their lack of psykers when, in previous books, they had one in Honorious...

[HeritorA]

Soooo anyone else think the iron warriors and first company storyline was a waste of paper? So far i'm a few chapters into shadows of ullanor and that one scene almost made me wanna stop reading. Something about how they introduced each psyker and this badass inquisitor before killing them off due to Deus Ex Machina

Exactly - in total their subplot has 230 pages now from all the novels. And the point for it - is NIL

[Tiger9gamer]

Honestly I think that there are some plots that should have been in like, a side novella or short story. There is a lot we can cover with the beast wars that there could be a side series next to the main one.

 

Anyway I finished shadows of ullanor and it was okay. There's just... so much that could have been. Maybe instead of the third and final assault on ullanor there could have been some assassination missions against the prime orks or something. Maybe different chapters fighting against them like the Blood Axe Prime Ork could be attacked and assassinated by white scars or raven guard, or maybe the Death skull's Prime ork being killed by a mixture of iron hands and mechanicus, until finally they lure out the Beast into attacking personally and finish him off. Lay a trap, be clever, just something else besides the meatgrinder of ullanor

 

Hell that would have been a greater climax for the deathwatch story and book. One by one they take out the prime orks using trickery and advanced tactics until finally they decide they can attack Ullanor again and take it down. show the valuable tactics of the deathwatch and inquisition that way instead of being in an all out fight.

 

Heck, one of the main plot points was throwing meteors against Ullanor itself. Why the hell didn't they just keep doing that, pounding the surface in the same spot until the earth cracked open and the planet destroyed itself, only to have the final battle be on the Phalanx with Thane and company throwing everything they got at it? Show one of the true strengths of the imperial fists: An absolute, impregnable defense

[Red_Shift]

For that matter why spend time building cruisers and battleships when asteroids are better?

 

I think the two biggest disappointments for me were the custodes who die by the droves to eldar and the sisters of silence who were initially awesome and then relegated to mandatory psychic nullifying role. It's almost like they just had no idea what to do with them.

 

Overall though black library have turned themselves around. They seemed a busted flush a year ago, producing eye wateringly expensive tie in novellas at a snail's pace and now have made this engaging series with a big pick up in pace of other releases as well. Pride of place on my desk is one to eleven of the beasts series and I think they have done a great job.

[Tiger9gamer]

For that matter why spend time building cruisers and battleships when asteroids are better?

 

I think the two biggest disappointments for me were the custodes who die by the droves to eldar and the sisters of silence who were initially awesome and then relegated to mandatory psychic nullifying role. It's almost like they just had no idea what to do with them.

 

Overall though black library have turned themselves around. They seemed a busted flush a year ago, producing eye wateringly expensive tie in novellas at a snail's pace and now have made this engaging series with a big pick up in pace of other releases as well. Pride of place on my desk is one to eleven of the beasts series and I think they have done a great job.

 

Biggest book disappointments is the book the Hunt for Vulkan and watchers in death. I already talked about the hunt and watchers though, and my new dissapointments are the last two books unfortunatly. Last son of dorn was good, but Shadow of Ullanor just beat it into the ground with how little a third attack made sense and how little it delivered.  Situation wise: The Fist exemplars versus the mechanicus on mars, with how much they could have shown going to waste,  and probably the amount of time they devote to Exemplars and Iron Warriors, taking away from other plots.

 

But yea, I agree! the majority of the books were great! The Beast must Die, Throne World and Predator, Prey are still some of my favorite books in recent 40k, and I would recommend them out of the bunch.

[HeritorA]

So the list of issues with TBA:

1) inconsistent approach to some characters which means bad editing work.

2) Custodians dying in droves to 1 eldar.

3) Sisters of silence being a sidekick for the main party - they are so forgetable...

4) Phalanx absence throughout 10 books to appear in book 11.

5) throwing meteors against Ullanor itself. Why simply not bombard the planet and use cyclonic torpedoes to finish the job????

6) Vulkan - here he is the same unneccessary  addition to the party as he is in HH by Kyme. Absolutely irrelevant, emo and without any impact on the story.

7) Exemplars and Iron Warriors sidequest - absolutely irrelevant storyline, that has no place in any logical continuinity to the series.

8) Absolutely flat ending for book 11.

9) Deathwatch - it's like turning the switch on and off: squads of SM are more successful our of the blue  in a small range of time, than a fully honed companies of SMs Chapters, which honed their brotherhood and experience for centuries.

 

TBA has good books in general - like Predator/Prey, The Emperor Expects, Throneworld but starting with Echoes of the Long war it went downhill

[DarkChaplain]

The number of custodes dying to two Eldar, one of which dies himself, the other being a Shadowseer handpicked for the task by Eldrad Ulthran,  wasn't actually a big deal. The Jester killed at least four, then got overwhelmed and died to them. The total of dead Custodes was a dozen, among the two, and we'd already discussed how it makes sense for Harlequins to reap a toll on them before they attune to the situation.

[HeritorA]

The number of custodes dying to two Eldar, one of which dies himself, the other being a Shadowseer handpicked for the task by Eldrad Ulthran,  wasn't actually a big deal. The Jester killed at least four, then got overwhelmed and died to them. The total of dead Custodes was a dozen, among the two, and we'd already discussed how it makes sense for Harlequins to reap a toll on them before they attune to the situation.

Dozens - I reread it again.

[DarkChaplain]

 

‘Hold!’ cried Vangorich. He and Krule rushed into the antechamber of the Sanctum Imperialis, a space big enough to station an army in. Though there was no army, war had recently visited. To the right, halfway to the Ultimate Gate, beyond which sat the Emperor Himself, a dozen Adeptus Custodes lay dead on the ground, a single, skull-masked eldar among them. The mosaic floor was cracked and ruined. Craters in the walls guttered with burning metal, damage from Titan weapons fire. A circle of Adeptus Custodes surrounded something hidden in its centre. ‘Hold!’

 

A dozen. A straight dozen. The book uses the work "dozens" only a few times, and never in relation to this fight, but in regards to the Chapters rallying and later.

[Mellow]

It's a shame the whole captured Eldar thing wasn't expanded upon. It was great reading the scene where the Eldar could feel The Emperors huge psychic presence nearby. It really drove home the feeling that He really is still around rather than gone like all the Chaos heretics will have you believe.

[Sete]

Blessed is the mind too small for doubt.

[HeritorA]

Blessed is the mind too small for doubt.

Or not blessed with hope  - cause it's a straight road to disappointment :)

[DukeLeto69]

So I have finally finished Shadow of Ullanor and... Meh! It has been said at length above but I agree with everything said. What a wasted opportunity and anti climax. I said above that I can only think Guymer's Last Son of Dorn rendered much of Sanders's book obsolete and got edited down (as it is soooo short) or required last minute rewrites.

 

As others have said, SoU started well. First 5 chapters were pretty good and then, big bloody sigh and huge sense of deja vu!

 

While we still have The Beheading to go, it is pretty certain that the war with the Orks is now over so as far as The Beast is concerned, story over.

 

I mean who thought it would be anything other than poor storytelling to attack Ullanor three times! At what meeting of authors and editorial did they all say "yeah let's just keep going back".

 

I am not saying SoU is a bad book as a standalone story except...it isn't a standalone story. It is part of a series!

 

I am hoping the whole Iron Warriors subplot will actually be concluded in The Beheading so that it makes some sense in the grander scheme of things and perhaps foreshadows the next Black Crusade or something!

 

So while the series is not actually over yet and therefore hindsight makes it easy to say "why didn't they do X Y Z" here are a few things I wish they had done differently (actually HeritorA made a good list of issues above so this expands on that really). Oh and let me qualify this by saying it is not meant as a criticism of any of the authors themselves as the books were individually all good to great but the series needed to be tighter...

 

1. I am assuming that the series follows a three act structure (even though each book has its own climax and story beats) so that would mean act 1 finishes end of book 3 and act 2 finishes end of book 9.

2. I would therefore have had another book before The Hunt for Vulkan that showed the huge scale of the defeat and hopelessness facing the Imperium.

3. It would have been at the end of that book that a chance discovery of information (not from Veritas) lead to the discovery that Vulkan is alive and where to find him.

4. the Hunt for Vulkan would have a different title...don't give the bloody plot away!

5. Combine the key plot points from Last Son of Dorn and Shadow of Ullanor into a single book.

6. Deal with the issue of the PrimeOrks!

7. Have Vulkan on the other side in "the green" fighting The Beast and weakening him to give Koorland et al a fighting chance, ie. give Vulkan a point for having been included and making the ultimate sacrifice.

8. Throw lots LOTS more asteroids at Ullanor!

 

Of course that still leaves the huge elephant in the room... Why not just attack Ullanor with exterminatus and the life eater virus? That plot hole needs addressing so... Perhaps the Orks have some special shield or immunity or... Oh I don't know... Big plot hole!