ShadowSwordmaster Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Just finished The Beheading. It answers pretty much all of the questions unanswered from the previous books: Any other questions? As to point number 2..... Does he die? Cause that'd be a bummer. Yes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4560744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 So as for Janus. The description seems to match Garro reasonably well at this stage, though we won't know what the future holds for him yet. It might all just be a big diversion: Beyond the door stood a Space Marine unlike any other she had ever met. He was ageless in the way of the Adeptus Astartes, but carried an air of great venerability that outmatched even that of Veritus. His face was leathery, tanned by the light of myriad suns, and wrinkled with fine lines. The skin was folded with age over his eyes, one of which had a pronounced squint – the mark of an old injury, perhaps – and his forehead was a mass of long-service studs. In the deadly cold he was barefoot and wore simple robes. Plumes of steam blew from his nostrils with each steady breath. Despite his great age he was tall and proud, his physiology distorted by his enhancement, neural plugs glinting in the grotesque musculature of his arms, but it was his psychic potency that took her aback. Wienand was no psyker, although many inquisitors were, but still she could feel his power emanating from his eyes. A nimbus of light from some internal source shone around his head. Wienand was overwhelmed by a sense of the holy; this was a warrior saint. She was one step from the Emperor Himself, and she fought the urge to prostrate herself before him. Garro has always been shown with three service studs (although Loken too has three on Legion of One's cover), and Garro's "air of great venerability" is something that was shown on his first artwork from Collected Visions as well. He also always tended to have lots of wrinkles and lines on his face. There's also a lot of scar tissue, and some of them seem to mark his eyes. There is no mention of hair in Janus's description, though we can't tell if it is just omitted or actually absent. We also know that neither Garro nor Loken have shown active psychic abilities so far, and even latent psychic powers are contested. We do not know however what enhancements they might have undergone on Titan to become grand masters though, with gene-seed to be said to come from the Emperor in some capacity. In fact, Pandorax stated that Epimetheus's gene-seed (Dark Angels) got removed from his body and replaced by the Grey Knights seed. There is also Mortarion's reaction to Janus being mentioned, in Mortarion's Heart: MORTARION (snorting): \\Oh, noble and mighty Janus! Noble, mighty, steadfast, pious and honourable Janus–// DRAIGO (helmet-vox): Do not speak his name. You are unworthy. Janus was the frst of us to stand against the forces of Chaos, and the greatest. The primarch still rippled with mirth, but shot through now with a flicker of agitation. MORTARION: \\I am unworthy? I spit on the name of “Janus”. You are more like him than you could ever know...// MORTARION (low, conspiratorial): \\But of course, I doubt even the archives of Titan would contain the original identities of the Sigillite’s... errant angels. Names. Power. It works both ways. Guarded. Hidden. [pause] The truth of Janus’s past would shake your pitiful Chapter to its very foundations. Of that, you can be certain. Treachery, cowardice... heresy, and a brother who would willingly betray his own for the sake of some half-imagined redemption.// MORTARION: \\As I told your master before I cut him down – you have all been deceived.// Veritus would probably be closer with Loken than Garro, longer history and all that, but he did flee aboard the Eisenstein and probably crossed paths with Garro more often later on. There is also some commentary on something else from the Horus Heresy: The Cabal, and Eldrad's involvement with it. I wonder how these things about him will play into future plotlines of 40k, post-Deathmasque. Meh, Still had hopes that Janus would be Omegon or at least someone else instead of Garro. But service studs and a face like that neglects any chance of it. :/ Though it does make sense but there were so many hints that it could be Omegon. Well, so be it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4560749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Like I said, service studs aren't exclusive to Garro even among the major Knights Errant right now. Garro and Loken are both likely candidates on that end. But then, Mortarion's Heart seems to tip things in favor of Garro. But then we also have the big contradiction from James Swallow who has claimed for a long while that Garro isn't a Grey Knight. That could be down to semantics (Grey Knights do not yet exist, and when they will, the Grand Masters all abandon their old names and accept new ones, like Janus, so "Garro" or "Loken" would never be "Grey Knights", the same way "Janus" and "Epimetheus" were never "Knights Errant". But hey, that's just wild speculation on my part. Personally, I'd bloody hate for a Primarch, and Omegon specifically, to turn Grey Knight. It just doesn't fit, and would make a laughing stock of the Alpha Legion and Malcador's good senses. I also never saw those many hints that it may be Omegon, any run down on them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4560778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 There's a YouTube video which sums up all hints quite well, but don't have the link at hand right now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4560783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDF Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 One thing we're passing over is Armageddon is fething Ullanor! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4560785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 That's the biggest surprise for me but it makes perfectly sense and explains its later conflicts and role... But still, would have never seen that coming :O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4560786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 About Point 3: I would say so. Bohemond hunts down Zerberyn and Kalkator, and when Zerberyn defends him and tries to bargain for Kalkator's life, Bohemond attacks them, and Zerberyn eventually sides with Kalkator and kills Bohemond. Twenty-two Fists Exemplar remain loyal and bring word of this to Thane, who absorbs the survivors into the Imperial Fists and orders the chapter expunged from history. Zerberyn, Honorius, Reoch and the rest of the Exemplars swear loyalty to Kalkator. Which of the books is this from as it sounds awesome Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4560799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shady Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 One thing we're passing over is Armageddon is fething Ullanor! Dear God-Emperor.... That's spoilertastic! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4560800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shady Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I'm getting distracted by juicy spoilers and keep forgetting my original question; How big is the Strike force that goes to take out Vangorich? Is it as stated in previously that it's the IF and 2 successors or is it just Thane and the IF? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4560802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDF Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Two hundred Imperial Fists and a hundred each from the Halo Brethren and Sable Swords. Thane puts the Sable Swords chapter master in charge because he considers his judgement compromised, but the chapter master is the first casualty so Thane has to take command. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4560805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shady Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 There is also some commentary on something else from the Horus Heresy: The Cabal, and Eldrad's involvement with it. I wonder how these things about him will play into future plotlines of 40k, post-Deathmasque. Was this just a few lines and what was said? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4560860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDF Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 There is also some commentary on something else from the Horus Heresy: The Cabal, and Eldrad's involvement with it. I wonder how these things about him will play into future plotlines of 40k, post-Deathmasque. Was this just a few lines and what was said? Eldrad and the Ulthwé Infinity Circuit talk about how the Cabal used the Eldar, but are now gone. Eldrad says he seeks only the survival of the Eldar race and considers humanity the best allies for that purpose. However, other species are a possibility including the Orks. He name checks "Mag Uruk Thraka" as an echo he hears in the warp, and states "the greenskins may yet fulfil their original purpose". They also consider abandoning the galaxy entirely (although Eldrad's not convinced they even could), but rule it out on the grounds that She Who Thirsts would follow them wherever they went. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4560877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 So what primarchs are actually in the book? I Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4560880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDF Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Well, for starters there's a nice statue of Dorn in the High Lords council chamber and even nobody else. Vulkan is the only primarch in the series and he's presumed perma-killed several books ago. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4560889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopkins Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Nicely done by Guy Haley. A great ending to an enjoyable series. Everything got boxed off, and some great Easter eggs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4560948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDF Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 My one complaint is Vangorich's fall came a little too quickly and wasn't explored fully. Throughout the series he's been portrayed as someone who has the best interests of the Imperium at heart. Yes, he was a bit hypocritical in condemning the other High Lords when he had made mistakes himself during the Beast War, but his justifications for eradicating them made sense. He did it in style as well, especially Kubik. Then there's a sudden time skip and Vangorich is a brutal dictator who needs putting down. The only possible explanations are that 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' and good old senility. A bit disappointing for such a charismatic character. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4560956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 It does seem like a good series to read. A post civil war imperium held together by spit and sawdust with barely any loyalists around to muster the defence of terra itself. I just feel dissapointed by what I've read on wiki regarding the "beast". More like a kitten. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4560959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 My one complaint is Vangorich's fall came a little too quickly and wasn't explored fully. Throughout the series he's been portrayed as someone who has the best interests of the Imperium at heart. Yes, he was a bit hypocritical in condemning the other High Lords when he had made mistakes himself during the Beast War, but his justifications for eradicating them made sense. He did it in style as well, especially Kubik. Then there's a sudden time skip and Vangorich is a brutal dictator who needs putting down. The only possible explanations are that 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' and good old senility. A bit disappointing for such a charismatic character. This would my big problem with the series - the rise of Vangorich, the realpolitiks of Terra in the century after the Beast, small world conflict and the enmeshing of a dense web of spymastery and long scenes of dialogue - that's what I wanted now, a series of Sam Vimes/Vetinari/Ahnk Morpork novels about Vangorich, the inquisitors, and the people in the Palace. Not just a Vangorich goes mad, everyone dies, palate cleansed book Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4560986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 My one complaint is Vangorich's fall came a little too quickly and wasn't explored fully. Throughout the series he's been portrayed as someone who has the best interests of the Imperium at heart. Yes, he was a bit hypocritical in condemning the other High Lords when he had made mistakes himself during the Beast War, but his justifications for eradicating them made sense. He did it in style as well, especially Kubik. Then there's a sudden time skip and Vangorich is a brutal dictator who needs putting down. The only possible explanations are that 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' and good old senility. A bit disappointing for such a charismatic character. It was outright stated that being in charge of the Imperium is what made him loony... well, combined with getting cock-blocked by Wienand, but yeah Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4561074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 That's the trouble with timeskips in general. You miss out on all the smaller bits that shape the characters. Vangorich definitely had some extreme notions lately, but he was still relatively grounded despite all. Though honestly, he craved power, and enjoyed having the High Lords at his "mercy". He wasn't nearly as humble as he'd like to believe... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4561118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNG1991 Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Like I said, service studs aren't exclusive to Garro even among the major Knights Errant right now. Garro and Loken are both likely candidates on that end. But then, Mortarion's Heart seems to tip things in favor of Garro. But then we also have the big contradiction from James Swallow who has claimed for a long while that Garro isn't a Grey Knight. That could be down to semantics (Grey Knights do not yet exist, and when they will, the Grand Masters all abandon their old names and accept new ones, like Janus, so "Garro" or "Loken" would never be "Grey Knights", the same way "Janus" and "Epimetheus" were never "Knights Errant". But hey, that's just wild speculation on my part. Personally, I'd bloody hate for a Primarch, and Omegon specifically, to turn Grey Knight. It just doesn't fit, and would make a laughing stock of the Alpha Legion and Malcador's good senses. I also never saw those many hints that it may be Omegon, any run down on them? Remember the Alpharius-soul thingy in Praetorian of Dorn? The body of Janus might belonged to Garro, but the soul? I bet that's Omegon inside. Mortarion never stated that Janus was his son at all... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4561270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
veterannoob Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Holy :cuss was that fun and A nice wrap to the series. Worth the wait and lots of unexpected answeres,some spoiled already, at least one in epilogue I was grateful for;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4561273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor of Calth Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 I'm response to the Janus talk. We have had a audio drama literally spell out in big bold capital letters that Garro is not be a Grey Knight. Janus is not Garro. Based on his heraldry (If you look at heraldry of the original 8, they all appear to mimic one of the legions.), he's definitely an Alpha Legionnaire, which suggests he is infact Omegon as other moments in the series have suggested. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4561301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranwulf Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 So, did you guys all enjoyed the series? I read the first one, like it, but I didn't really liked how the second one started so I didn't really finished it. Would you guys suggest to keep reading it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4561309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
veterannoob Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 I enjoyed it and recommend it. Glad I did the audio books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/48/#findComment-4561310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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