Marshal Rohr Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 I called the Armageddon thing years ago. Im going to shout it from every mountain. Wish it hadn't teleported, but I'll take anything at this point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4562033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 I liked the series, but there were some definite low points, as discussed ad nauseam in this thread. Though I gotta say, the second book is one of the best of the series. Anyways, managed to finish the book in 24 hours and I got some things to say I really wish that whole iron warriors/Fist Exemplars thing was delt with better. after all the meandering around it just felt like a lame excuse as to retcon out the chapter they created so the imperial fists could be destroyed. I dunno, but I think they could have done it differently. Maybe the Fist Exemplars sacrifice the most men during an assault on Ullanor, or do some other kind of heroic act. When Koorland died taking the fists with him the Last Wall would reinstate the imperial fists using most of the exemplar marines mixed in with the other chapters, and in the end they sacrifice the last of their legacy to have the imperial fists survive as a first founding chapter. They sacrifice everything for their primarch, even after centuries of being their own independent chapter. Instead of having them purged because of treachery, they voluntarily delete all of their history so that the imperial fists could survive untainted. Right now because they had half of the chapter seem to fall to chaos, it feels like the new imperial fists as a whole are weak willed. Also, as cool as having Vangorich weave an intricate web of assassinations was, I would have preferred if he did things himself. Have him call a meeting on terra in private and when all the high lords showed up he would stand, lock the doors, pull out his weapons and get to work. plant the bodies and have his replacements as normal, with maybe the exception of Kubrik being replaced with a new tech priest. Honestly I wish the book was 100 pages longer. Drakan just dies in a sentence, and Beast Krule screws right the hell off after being turned into an eversor, and Thane just walks out. I wish Thane and vangorich had a massive duel in the center of the room as space marines fought assassins, with wire throwing off his programing to become the new high lord assassin. It just would have been more satisfying. maybe show more of Vangorich's fall or something, I dunno. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4562092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 'I really wish that whole iron warriors/Fist Exemplars thing was delt with better' - so true. All that plot was absolutely irrelevant and simply was a 'page filler' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4562694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 'I really wish that whole iron warriors/Fist Exemplars thing was delt with better' - so true. All that plot was absolutely irrelevant and simply was a 'page filler' crap I just noticed a typo from that quote! I gotta slow my roll sometimes for these posts. I think that the prime orks should have been introduced earlier too, and actually be a friggen antagonist in this series. They are just sorta... dropped. I dunno, maybe have the death watch go and target them instead of finding the sisters of silence? sounds like an effective strategy. Plus, we could have still had chaos. The long war could have focused on the iron warriors finding out about the psyker thing and after a moment of reflection or something, the iron warriors would have sent the information to the imperium using the guise of a black templar. the actions could have the motivation of Chaos wanting to rule everything but they don't have their crap together so they let the imperium deal with it for now. They could hope the imperium spends all of it's resources in the Beast War and then launch a black crusade right after or something... Or you, be under attack from the Orks themselves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4562732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 My one complaint is Vangorich's fall came a little too quickly and wasn't explored fully. Throughout the series he's been portrayed as someone who has the best interests of the Imperium at heart. Yes, he was a bit hypocritical in condemning the other High Lords when he had made mistakes himself during the Beast War, but his justifications for eradicating them made sense. He did it in style as well, especially Kubik. Then there's a sudden time skip and Vangorich is a brutal dictator who needs putting down. The only possible explanations are that 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' and good old senility. A bit disappointing for such a charismatic character. It was outright stated that being in charge of the Imperium is what made him loony... well, combined with getting cock-blocked by Wienand, but yeah Sadly that's the second flat point of great book. Vangorich fall and road to tyranny and loonacy should have been explored more and in details. Instead we get that. I do understand the limitations of 'pages' - but Haley could have done less dialogs at the beginning and have more pages to investigate Vangorich fall Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4562742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineswords Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 One thing we're passing over is Armageddon is fething Ullanor! This the one spoiler I was like, 'wow that's cool'. I'm sure the final chapter would've been epic but some feth-head spoiled it on Reddit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4562746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 My one complaint is Vangorich's fall came a little too quickly and wasn't explored fully. Throughout the series he's been portrayed as someone who has the best interests of the Imperium at heart. Yes, he was a bit hypocritical in condemning the other High Lords when he had made mistakes himself during the Beast War, but his justifications for eradicating them made sense. He did it in style as well, especially Kubik. Then there's a sudden time skip and Vangorich is a brutal dictator who needs putting down. The only possible explanations are that 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' and good old senility. A bit disappointing for such a charismatic character. It was outright stated that being in charge of the Imperium is what made him loony... well, combined with getting cock-blocked by Wienand, but yeah Sadly that's the second flat point of great book. Vangorich fall and road to tyranny and loonacy should have been explored more and in details. Instead we get that. I do understand the limitations of 'pages' - but Haley could have done less dialogs at the beginning and have more pages to investigate Vangorich fall Really Vangorich's rise and running the Imperium should have been its own mini-series. Having established a cast of characters who were interesting, human, fallible. A defined geography. A point to the series - power corrupts. It could have been darkest time West Wing, or the lush campness of House of Cards, or more of the level of ambition about institutional/societal failure and complexity seen in something like The Wire or The Young Pope. Instead it was ... not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4562754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 You can't have a mini series about someone running the Imperium. It would be way too boring and full of the very "filler" that no body likes. The spoiler over the planet was good though and explains many things. I'm not sure leaving any more pages to someone being killed is necrsssry and a marine isn't going to stand around for a chit chat after doing it. They do their job and leave. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4562756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 You can't have a mini series about someone running the Imperium. It would be way too boring and full of the very "filler" that no body likes. The spoiler over the planet was good though and explains many things. I'm not sure leaving any more pages to someone being killed is necrsssry and a marine isn't going to stand around for a chit chat after doing it. They do their job and leave. I'm sorry, I completely disagree. Running a city, culture, country, a society, a nation or a series of nations is beyond interesting to many people. It's not filler, when done very well. Each of the examples I've mentioned, admittedly in a different medium, did or do exactly that. They have each been incredibly popular or successful, and each are or were sterling and very different examples of long-form, slow-burn, societal-examining media whose writing concerns why it does or doesn't work, what corruption does, what fallible humans do. And on these pages, what are people's seemingly favourite part of TBA - people talking about running the Imperium, its ideology, its corruption. Not the bloody and often boring or ludicrous battles. If you want an example of what I'm imaging, check out this treklit book about the President of the Federation, or this one about one of its fictional species, the Cardassians. They have scenes of violence, or allude to violence, or follow on from other novels in which battles or violence occur - but this is limited. At their heart, they are about visions of society. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4562765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 You can't have a mini series about someone running the Imperium. It would be way too boring and full of the very "filler" that no body likes. The spoiler over the planet was good though and explains many things. I'm not sure leaving any more pages to someone being killed is necrsssry and a marine isn't going to stand around for a chit chat after doing it. They do their job and leave. I'm sorry, I completely disagree. Running a city, culture, country, a society, a nation or a series of nations is beyond interesting to many people. It's not filler, when done very well. Each of the examples I've mentioned, admittedly in a different medium, did or do exactly that. They have each been incredibly popular or successful, and each are or were sterling and very different examples of long-form, slow-burn, societal-examining media whose writing concerns why it does or doesn't work, what corruption does, what fallible humans do. And on these pages, what are people's seemingly favourite part of TBA - people talking about running the Imperium, its ideology, its corruption. Not the bloody and often boring or ludicrous battles. If you want an example of what I'm imaging, check out this treklit book about the President of the Federation, or this one about one of its fictional species, the Cardassians. They have scenes of violence, or allude to violence, or follow on from other novels in which battles or violence occur - but this is limited. At their heart, they are about visions of society. Totally agree with every point. You said it much better than me. Thank you Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4562780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Totally agree with every point. You said it much better than me. Thank you Thanks HeritorA! (Would have loved to see how you ran Ferrazoica too, but that is what some of Traitor General is for, I guess ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4562976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Totally agree with every point. You said it much better than me. Thank you Thanks HeritorA! (Would have loved to see how you ran Ferrazoica too, but that is what some of Traitor General is for, I guess ) I would have ran it differently and more quickly for sure. Gaunt wouldn't have a chance ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4563408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordhellblade Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 So is anyone going to make some rules for Koorland, Thane and Vangorich? I was really hoping Koorland would survive, but Thane becoming chapter master is pretty cool. Also if Garro is Janus. if not well... then the reason Mortarion hasn't done anything 10,000 years is because at the Siege of Terra , Garro and him went head to head, and with the help of some Sisters of Silence,, (Specifically Amendera Kendel) banished his ass. preferrably with some kind of badass one liner about tyrany- since Garro was Terran and a Dusk Raider. ) and Garro dies from his injuries. Or if Garro is Janus, he still banishes Mortartions ass and dies from his injuries. Anyway back to the Beast Arises I would love stats for Koorland, Thane and Vangorich. And THE BEAST! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4563677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Mortarion has been active during those 10,000 years, though. For example in M36, and when Garro DRAIGO took over from Geronitan in 901.M41 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4563683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Quite the typo there... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4563695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shady Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 They also consider abandoning the galaxy entirely (although Eldrad's not convinced they even could), but rule it out on the grounds that She Who Thirsts would follow them wherever they went. Urgh. They done this for The End of Times in WHF when the collected souls of the Elves were stolen/taken/eaten/munched/BBQ'd by She Who Thirsts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4563735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Quite the typo there... Damn. Caught me there. hellblade's post mentioned him so many times, I went on autopilot :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4563892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 So is anyone going to make some rules for Koorland, Thane and Vangorich? Anyway back to the Beast Arises I would love stats for Koorland, Thane and Vangorich. And THE BEAST! I really hope BL just releases a campaign thing like next month for ork versus imperials and stuff. a short little pdf with some extra rules or a mission or something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4564035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 · Hidden by WarriorFish, November 17, 2016 - No reason given Hidden by WarriorFish, November 17, 2016 - No reason given So is anyone going to make some rules for Koorland, Thane and Vangorich? Anyway back to the Beast Arises I would love stats for Koorland, Thane and Vangorich. And THE BEAST! I really hope BL just releases a campaign thing like next month for ork versus imperials and stuff. a short little pdf with some extra rules or a mission or something. Are where not enough orcs in 12 books full year for you? Give me back my lovely Chaos Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4564410
TDF Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 They also consider abandoning the galaxy entirely (although Eldrad's not convinced they even could), but rule it out on the grounds that She Who Thirsts would follow them wherever they went. Urgh. They done this for The End of Times in WHF when the collected souls of the Elves were stolen/taken/eaten/munched/BBQ'd by She Who Thirsts. Doesn't seem that unreasonable to me. Slaanesh wanting to eat all the Eldar souls has a been a thing for as long as I can remember. Of course, if GW actually follow through with it... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4565262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 "Kudos" to Haley for making Behemond a complete idiot. Quite disappointed. Was expecting a better treatment from someone who wrote about BT. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4565476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 I'm 66% through with the Beheading being thoroughly successful, and enjoying it a great deal. No time-jump yet though, and while some things like the Phalanx still seem like a late justification for its absence, the meat of the book is solid. I wanted more of this for ages, and now its finally happened. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4565518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 It said the Phalanx was the largest Warp capable craft in the Imperium. Does that make it bigger than the Rock? Does anyone know what it actually looks like? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4566261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Well, the Rock want always warp capable. Perhaps it's still before they put warp engines on it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4566317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 It said the Phalanx was the largest Warp capable craft in the Imperium. Does that make it bigger than the Rock? Does anyone know what it actually looks like? The Phalanx was shown on the Soul Drinkers 6 cover, book titled Phalanx: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/4/45/Phalanx_wallpaper.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314634-the-beast-arises/page/49/#findComment-4566345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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