brother_contagion Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 This is a list that I was wanting to build for starting 30k. I don't know exactly what the meta is in 30k and I don't own any of the books, I've seen a good number of batreps is all, so this list may or may not be competitive. I'm looking for semi-competive list building. Because I don't have the books I'm using Battlescribe, and I'm assuming 30k uses the basic CAD, if not let me know. HQ Praetor: Cataphractii Terminator Armor, Dragonscale Storm Shield, Master-crafted Thunder Hammer, Mantle of the Elder Drake, Digital Lasers. 200pts TROOPS Pyroclast Squad x2: 4 Pyroclast w/ Pyroclast Flame Projectors, 1 Pyroclast Warden with Artificer Pyroclast Flame Projector, Melta Bombs, Land Raider Phobos w/ hull-mounted Heavy Flamer, Pintle-mounted Multi-Melta. 460pts ELITES Firedrake Terminator Squad: 4 Firedrakes w/ Dragonscale Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer, 1 Firedrake Master w/ Dragonscale Storm Shield, Master-crafted Thunder Hammer. 350pts Legion Dreadnought x2: Power Fist w/ Meltagun, Multi-Melta. 140pts HEAVY SUPPORT Legion Predator Tank x2: Executioner Plasma Cannon, Havoc Launcher. 125pts TOTAL POINTS: 2,000 So my idea with the Pyroclast squads is to move them up in the Land Raiders to jump out and Melta stuff and charge it with their Melta Bombs, the Firedrakes and Praetor will be moving up the field with the Dreadnoughts on either flank, and the Predators will be destroying things with its rapid firing non-overheating Plasma Cannon o' death (I've used one of these with my CSMs and it is devastating), the Havoc Launcher is simply there to add more blast to the party. I'd think this is pretty fluffy for the Salamanders, but let me know if there is a better way to run them. Should I get rid of the Land Raiders for more Marines or keep them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314637-salamander-legion-2000pts/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Under Covenant of Fire, Pyroclasts are non-compulsory troops you still need something else. You'll also want Transports for the Firedrakes. They have Cataphractii meaning Slow And Purposeful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314637-salamander-legion-2000pts/#findComment-4191253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Hello and welcome to 30k! It's great tk see more people coming over to this side of the hobby, as it's really great fun! 30k has a few differences to 40k. If you're playing against 40k, just go with the rules in the BRB. In 30k, you have no CAD, but an Age of Darkness Force Organisation Chart. This is a CAD with +1 HQ and +1 Elites, but no ObSec on Troops or Warlord Trait re-roll. Troops (and certain specified units) are the only scoring units, but all units are denial units. Good place to start for purchases is the £50 Legiones Astartes Gamer's Collection, consisting of the Crusade Army List (LACAL) and the Isstvan Campaign Legions. These are often referred to as the Red Books. I also recommend getting the newly released Mechanicum Red Book, as it includes updated rules for playing Battles in the Age of Darkness, including the 6 standard missions, and all the Mechanicum rules (which make for brilliant Allies for the Legions). With your list: Salamanders have a Rite of War (a specialised way of playing an army) called "the Covenant of Fire", which allows Pyroclasts as non-compulsory Troops, as Slips said. This means your list is illegal unfortunately. Battlescribe won't give you those specifics! Another Rite of War is "Pride of the Legion", which allows Terminators and Veterans as Troops (with some penalties). Given that Firedrakes are so brutal, this could be an option for you (and yes, they need a transport). Hope this helps a bit! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314637-salamander-legion-2000pts/#findComment-4191257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_contagion Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Ok, so I see there are different kinds of Land Raiders. What are the differences between them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314637-salamander-legion-2000pts/#findComment-4191891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Phobos: Standard 40k LR Proteus: No Front Ramp, Can be upgraded to have Scout and -1 to Enemy reserves or +1 Yours, reduces capacity to 8. A Proteus without Exploratory Augury Web is 50pts Cheaper than a Phobos but does not come standard with a Hull Mounted TLHB. Achilles: 6 Cap, No Front Ramp, Quad Mortar and either 2TL Multi Meltas or 2 TL Volkite Culverins. Is immune to Lance and Melta innately and has -1 to vehicle damage chart vs pens. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314637-salamander-legion-2000pts/#findComment-4191985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 The Achilles-Alpha is a also standalone choice, whilst a standard Achilles can be taken as part of the LR Squadron. The Alpha comes with TL volkite culverins, while the standard has TL multi-meltas. I don't think the Alpha is really worth the extra 25 points. I've been listhammering Salamanders lately, using a LR Achilles to transport 5-man squads of Pyroclasts. The tank puts out 4 Strength 8 Sunder shots and 2 TL Strength 8 Melta shots, so it's pretty decent. The Pyroclasts can have a character join them or an Apothecary, giving them extra punch or survivability. Think it might have some potential! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314637-salamander-legion-2000pts/#findComment-4192183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 The Achilles-Alpha is a also standalone choice, whilst a standard Achilles can be taken as part of the LR Squadron. The Alpha comes with TL volkite culverins, while the standard has TL multi-meltas. I don't think the Alpha is really worth the extra 25 points. I've been listhammering Salamanders lately, using a LR Achilles to transport 5-man squads of Pyroclasts. The tank puts out 4 Strength 8 Sunder shots and 2 TL Strength 8 Melta shots, so it's pretty decent. The Pyroclasts can have a character join them or an Apothecary, giving them extra punch or survivability. Think it might have some potential! To Expand, while it would be very points intensive: 3 LR Achilles in a Squadron potentially?, all Filled with a 5 man Pyroclast Squad with or without a single added support character. Gives you a Rapier Battery, 6 TL Multi Melta Shots and so many Flamers that can turn into S6 Ap1 Melta Guns in a Pinch. Yeah, sure, its 900 Points in Tanks Alone but, hey, it'd be pretty baller. All the Tanks having PotMS means they can deal with a variety of threats such as Melta-ing a Tank or 2+ armor while Frag Shelling that Blob over there in the distance. Use Covenant of Fire to Shift the Pyros To Troops so they can score (if only the Achilles could be a dedicated...) and you've got a pretty decent-ish enough hammer that should confound a lot of people since the tanks will only ever explode to a Roll of a 6 with Ap1 meaning they'll usually have to get Glanced to Death and since its a Squadron...well, that'll take a while. If you're not using a Praetor to unlock the RoW (ie Vulkan ) or just not running one; but that means 2 Pyro Squads max due to 3 HS Slots, you could then use your 3HQ slots to take Forge Lords to repair the Achilles With. ...But then, at this point, its a self contained army in its own right or a single, small, part of an Apocalypse Army. It would be cool though! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314637-salamander-legion-2000pts/#findComment-4192202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_contagion Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 I was thinking of using 2 Pyroclast squads in Proteus Land Raiders with the Augury to Scout up and melta/flame things, supported by a Praetor w/ Firedrakes in a Spartan. So since Pyroclasts are non-compulsory Troops with the Covenant of Fire RoW, that still means I gotta pay another Troop tax right? Is there something better that just 2 10-man Marine squads or are they good enough? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314637-salamander-legion-2000pts/#findComment-4192221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 This is almost exactly what I'm looking at! Except the Achilles is a 0-1 choice per LR Squadron, so you have to use all 3 Heavy Supoort slots as single Achilles. Means Covenant of Fire is mandatory, but that's not a bad thing! They'll be immune to melta & lance and have the -1 on the Vehicle Damage Table, so like you said Glances only. Even if they get melta bombs near you, you at least have a 5+ vs them too! They will be a tricky thing to deal with - lots of Graviton will do well, but it'll be 3 targets as opposed to 1 Squadron of them, so that's probably more of a benefit. :) brother_contagion, what you have suggested is the other way I thought of. Proteus LRs are cheap, so it works well. As for Troops, 2 x 10 man squads in Rhinos with vexilla is a safe, cheap option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314637-salamander-legion-2000pts/#findComment-4192223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_contagion Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Ok, so here's the modified list: HQ Centurion: Delegatus (Covenant of Fire), Cataphractii Terminator Armor, Artificer Thunder Hammer, Combi-Bolter. 125pts ELITES Firedrake Terminator Squad: 4 Firedrakes w/ Dragonscale Storm Shields, Thunder Hammers, 1 Firedrake Master w/ Dragonscale Storm Shield, Master-crafted Thunder Hammer, Spartan Assault Tank w/ 2 Sponson Quad Lascannons, Hull-mounted Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor. 645pts TROOPS Tactical Squad x2: 9 Marines, 1 Sergeant w/ Bolters, Rhino. 185pts Pyroclast Squad x2: 4 Pyroclast, 1 Pyroclast Warden w/ Pyroclast Flame Projectors, Land Raider Proteus w/ Hull-mounted Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer, Explorator Augury Web. 430pts TOTAL POINTS: 2,000 Quick question, if Combi-bolters in 30k count as Twin-linked Bolters, can they be upgraded to Twin-linked Flamers for free as well? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314637-salamander-legion-2000pts/#findComment-4192240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Looks nice, honestly. As for the Combi-Bolter thing, I'd say yeah. I dont see why not. If Salamanders Jetbikes can swap their Heavy Bolters for Heavy Flamers, this is the least of your worries, I guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314637-salamander-legion-2000pts/#findComment-4192242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 No, you can't swap normal bolters - only heavy bolters. Rather than paying 20 points per Proteus for heavy flamers (that you may be out of range to use), I'd grab a Flare Shield for the Spartan and a Dragonscale storm shield for your Delegatus. Apart from that, it looks pretty good man! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314637-salamander-legion-2000pts/#findComment-4192243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_contagion Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Alright, I'll do the changes to the list that you suggested (cause they're good!) and then add Dozer Blades to the Proteus Land Raiders since I still had 10pts left over. For FW's Proteus Land Raiders, does only the Armored variant come with a hull mounted weapon? I like the look of the un-armored variant better but it doesn't look like it comes with a hull-mounted weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314637-salamander-legion-2000pts/#findComment-4192295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I dont have either so cant speak for what comes with the Kit but, I assume that yes, only the armored proteus comes with a Hull Mounted Weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314637-salamander-legion-2000pts/#findComment-4192297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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