Prot's Battle Co Batrep w/Pics. VS the Tau (1850)

[Prot]

I had to finish all this infantry... to complete my Tacticals and nearly all my Devastators for my Battle Co. And I'm still not done!

This is part 2 of my experiment specifically pitting my Grey Knights and now my Ultramarines against Tau.

This game had my opponent keeping nearly the same list but he did add in some suits with Railguns, but otherwise it was untouched (I think). The table would remain nearly identical in set up, and we would have the same Maelstrom game which is one of my favorites because it can punish you for being immobile, and lacking ObSec. Basically we played the Maelstrom game where you each get 3 cards per turn and you can steal your opponent's "Objective X" marker cards.

The teaser pic:

+ A hectic part of the battlefield. Ultramarines are down to a pair of Tacticals and a hulldown Rhino, sitting on an objective that was worth 3 points over the game. The first one to die here gives up those points (Tau red bot is sitting on the objective coin.) The Tau have reinforced with these suits and had an incredible Deep Strike, but Chaplain Sentina roars in through the background with Assault Marines at his side. +

The Setup - Opening Shots Fired:

- At 1850 my opponent felt confident with reserving a few packs of suits. The Hammerhead and skyray would start on the table with the Farsight Enclave off the table. The Riptide took up a good vantage point on the Western edge of his deployment while the Stealth Suits and Pathfinders would hunker down in terrrain.

- He gets first turn, and I fail to seize (just like the Grey Knights game!) He wants Night Fight, gets it, and of course has Black Sun filters on most of his army.

- He pulls very good cards, many doable locations and it's very hard to stay out of line of sight of Tau with their movement. But he has bad luck since as always my Rhino/Razorbacks are viewed as an easy first blood. He takes a few hullpoints off of them, but none are destroyed!

- Tau end up with a big 4 point turn. Grabbing a last objective near the mid table to take a big lead.

+ Ultra Deployment: The Stalkers are shown here, exchanging shots with the Tau Skimmers. Ultra Lascannon Devs punch shots through to the end of the table, and off picture to the right is a lascannon Razorback and the Hunter from the Anti Air Defense squad. Ahead the tacticals try to reinforce the Attack Bike in Assault +

- On my turn I draw a similar objective to one he JUST completed. His Stealth Suits are sitting on that objective, so I can't let him steal it. I mobilize my Attack Bike to try to steal the objective.... I did not want to do this but I could not go into the hole by 5 points in turn one.... So I commit the Attack Bike, but we fail to damage each other. The Tactical squad advances to reinforce the bike... if they survive. The point is contested.

- I manage to avoid too much damage from the riptide as it overheats, and fails it's FnP! But the firepower is immense, I take hullpoints and exchange shots which he does not Jink on his Skimmers.... The Stalkers fail to glance the AV13 Skimmers. But I do manage to get a pod in, and kill a squad for First blood, and a point. I'm losing 4-2.

Turns 2-3:

- Half his reserves fail. He wants my Pod down, and the Ironclad inside manages to suffer one glance! Very lucky. He pulls a card for an objective in front of the Riptide... so the Riptide is dedicated to that area for the turn. I get VERY lucky on his shooting this turn, as I get away with a few more glances, and some marines are starting to feel the heat now and are going down.

- Our lethargic Close Combat continues on the Eastern side. The attack bike kills one Stealth Suit, the Stealth Suits cause one wound.... draw on that objective, so no one scores it!

- A card is pulled for Objective 2, and I can't quite get there, and he can't make it in his turn... There will be a big fight up there shortly as the points stack up for Objective 2....

+ The Razorbacks take a beating. On the Western flank I try to take care of the riptide already.... but I lose a Razorback and a few marines here.

- In my turn my Reserves are great.... I put a dual Meltagun squad down in front of the Riptide. My Second Ironclad comes down and starts roasting Tau with a heavy flamer. Chaplain Sentina and the Assault Squad come down as well from deep strike and dual flame some Pathfinders.

- I decide to focus down the Riptide.... the melta's are horrible... I can't do any real damage. Same with my Ironclad.... so I move on to many single shots from Tactical special weapons, and then get desperate enough to use all my Razorbacks (within range): Lascannons, plasmaguns, etc..... all I get is 3 wounds off of it.... But I do manage a few points and we are tied.

+ The Stalkers are desperately trying to put holes in the Skyray or Hammerhead but fail every turn... The Tau don't even bother jinking. lol +

+ Things get greasy here. The Riptide to the far right is blessed with FnP rolls, and I can only get him down to one wound... The Assault Squad will double flame this squad of Tuna for dinner. +

Mid Game:

- His Farsight Enclave with HQ and uber suits come down... he's eying up my Ironclad because I have 2 deep in his zone now to support my Tacticals in pods. He doesn't know where to put his deep strikers because I've intentionally created a Drop Pod "grid" on the western half of the table making it very dangerous.....

- His Farsight of course can go where he wants... he plops down right in front of the Ironclad and blicks it.

+ The Farsight Enclave wants this objective, so they roast the Ironclad... for now. +

- With that point gone, at least he has committed his fishy HQ to the battle. But back at the middle of the table it's getting greasy there too... as we've drawn another card 2 and that means it's worth a few points now and he can't reinforce it if I can blow away his squad.... but a second Tau squad comes in to reinforce....

+ He wants objective 2.... this squad starts blowing away marines.... I'm in danger of giving up several points here. I forget he has another squad in reserve.....

+ The Second Tau Suit squad comes in and deviates a little too far, but I'm losing marines.... Somehow with cover saves, and Will of the Emperor... I manage to keep 2 marines Contesting the Objective!

- Chaplain Sentina and the Assault Marines must reinforce, and they made it up the hill for a dual flamer, assault charge:

+ Here we are... back to the first picture. Sentina would dual flame this squad of Tau but it would take a full assault and the Eviscerator hacking these infernal Tau suits to pieces. Ultra would claim 3 points here. +

- I go up a few points in this turn. We are still exchanging shots on the Eastern flank though. No one can damage the other guy.... tanks fire, misses, and the odd hull point....

- Big moment here as Tau go to fire up the Riptide and advance on me. He goes to overcharge and rolls a 1 ! Finally! Then he fails his FnP and kills his own riptide removing the 5th wound! For the Greater Good indeed....

- Now for the embarrassing par of the table: On the far East I FINALLY defeat the Stealth Suits in what can only be described as a slap fest. The Attack bike finally gets to go for the Hammerhead and even with Doctrines fails to hit! The remaining Tacticals break free of the same assault and I get a lucky roll and hit the rear of the Skyray with a Krack Grenade.... charging in I finish it off.

+ Folly on the Eastern fringe. A slap fest breaks and I go for the vehicle kills....+

- His HQ is hiding.... I draw Slay the Warlord, and to back up a second.... my Captain Proteus joined my Grav Cannon Devastator squad. I called the Devastator Doctrine for the turn....

+ Captain Proteus and Grav Devs touch down in Tuna town. The HQ is annihilated with Grav... barely (he made several invulns and/or cover). Above the squad is depleted by yet another Crisis Suit team that is pelting from a distance. But the Tau would not be able to jump back far enough to avoid the Grav retribution. I barely kill them off. +

- With his HQ gone, and now the Ultra's would own most of the table he decided to concede. The final score was tight though.... and I decided to minus a couple of points that I rolled on the D3 charts to remove the randomness element for the purpose of my test, and it turned out to be 11-14 for the Ultra's. A narrow, hard fought, very grindy win.

It was a very gritty win. I suffered some losses but played tactically sound in this one, and had some luck go my way. My opponent's dice were VERY cold on the Riptide in particular. Incredible really.

I had table domination by the end of the game but I should.... since I am using the Battle Company in one of it's 'spammier' incarnations. That being said I felt the list was a little 'thin'. The ability to acquire 'free' transports feels like it has diminishing returns if you push it too hard and end up with a bunch of squads with no upgrades.... then you end up in these slap fights that you just hope you survive long enough to come out of.

In truth, I have no idea how I'm going to tackle these tau once the new book comes out. I guess we'll see!

Thanks for reading!

P.S.

Chapter 1 of this experiment involving the same dirty Tau against my Grey Knights is pictured and reported here: LINK

[Raven6826]

Great report, superb pics, good win! The bugger made you work for it tho ;-)

[Rojo]

Nice battle report! Thanks for taking the time to share your experiments with us.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Awesome report man. Glad to see you cleansed the xenos after all. 

 

This is why I hate Maelstrom though. It really doesn't reflect the realities on the tabletop. The Tau player could've easily come back and crushed you if a few things had gone his way. The random points and randomly changing objectives just reward camping ultimately. That free VP for the 'Tide on Turn 2 (or 3 I forget) was dumb, as just one example. 

 

Riptides are just insane man. I feel your pain. Trying to kill them at range is just an exercise in frustration. Unless their stupid 3+ invul is down and you hit them with a billion AP2 shots, they just refuse to die. I bet you missed having no DK's to just sword it to death ;)

 

Yeah Stalkers don't really work against AV13 skimmers. It's a cornercase, because Hammerheads would be a rarity (pretty much all other skimmers, like Flyers, are AV12 or less). Just the nature of the matchup. 

[Prot]

Thanks for checking it out!

 

Really dumping that much firepower into one model has me quite concerned about the new Tau dex, but I don't want to overreact. lol

 

This is why I hate Maelstrom though. It really doesn't reflect the realities on the tabletop. The Tau player could've easily come back and crushed you if a few things had gone his way. The random points and randomly changing objectives just reward camping ultimately. That free VP for the 'Tide on Turn 2 (or 3 I forget) was dumb, as just one example.

 

 

- Actually when he blew his own dude up... I didn't get that VP. The card says 'on your turn'. I had to get it on my turn.

 

- But randomly changing objectives... I totally disagree. Camping punishes in Maelstrom, and if you play a deathstar it's even worse for you since your 'camping' abilities are further hampered by your inability to cover real estate without moving. If you only have 2-3 units and you don't want to move anything else, then  yes, I believe that is working as intended to force you to move.

 

The idea of a point becoming a big factor then watching both players scramble to reinforce and dominate that point is a blast to me. I love it. The alternative is pew pew from the corner... ugh.

 

I appreciate you don't like Maelstrom but this is the beauty of 7th, you can play the alternative. A lot of tournies are using modified versions which use this style of objective point swapping though so I like to stay sharp with it.

 

This variant of my Battle Co is about as shooty as I can make it with some form of assault still able to fill that need (if it arises). However, it felt like he actually had -better- firepower and cover is an issue for the Battle Co. Thankfully I'm toting dual Auspex's but still... it's a significant issue that Tau can remove from your side of the table and the access to low AP shooting is staggering.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Really dumping that much firepower into one model has me quite concerned about the new Tau dex, but I don't want to overreact. lol

If it makes you feel any better, the new Lord of War 'dakka for dayz' suit is less survivable than a Riptide and is arguably balanced by it's absurd points cost. As with most 'too tough to shoot to death' targets, both of them fold to melee so that's what you should use. Just shoot at weaker targets like Crisis or Broadsides, and once you hit charge range then take down the Tides.

- Actually when he blew his own dude up... I didn't get that VP. The card says 'on your turn'. I had to get it on my turn.

And you still defend Maelstrom

But randomly changing objectives... I totally disagree. Camping punishes in Maelstrom, and if you play a deathstar it's even worse for you since your 'camping' abilities are further hampered by your inability to cover real estate without moving. If you only have 2-3 units and you don't want to move anything else, then yes, I believe that is working as intended to force you to move.

The idea of a point becoming a big factor then watching both players scramble to reinforce and dominate that point is a blast to me. I love it. The alternative is pew pew from the corner... ugh.

Dude, he camped for most of it and had you on the ropes. So, forgive me for being skeptical of 'camping doesn't work'. It quite nearly won him the game.

I wouldn't mind the 'suddenly this place matters' mechanic, if it wasn't drowned out by the 'huehuehuehuehuheuheuhuehueh kill this thing they don't have, or achieve this impossible Linebreaker, or do this other absurd thing, or take 3 objectives on the same turn, or your opponent gets points for being on the objective you JUST ROLLED/DREW. I think Maelstrom modified into purely 'objective markers matter, and can randomly be worth more for certain reasons' is acceptable, and I'd maybe play it. Not the pure form though. It's garbage.

This variant of my Battle Co is about as shooty as I can make it with some form of assault still able to fill that need (if it arises). However, it felt like he actually had -better- firepower and cover is an issue for the Battle Co. Thankfully I'm toting dual Auspex's but still... it's a significant issue that Tau can remove from your side of the table and the access to low AP shooting is staggering.

That's the matchup, and it's why I argue Tau are still tier 1. Their dominance of the Shooting phase is such so absurd, they can blow other tier 1 armies off the table, nevermind tier 2 or worse. I really wish you could take a jump pack Librarian over the Chaplain for Battle Company requirements, but hey, I guess GW actually considered the lore when they wrote Gladius ;) .

[Prot]

Yes... I still defend the Maelstrom. What can I say at this point except perhaps I love the challenge of it? But otherwise, yes my being mobile and not camping actually won me the game. His cards and first turns were amazing, but because he could not freely stay in my area at all, he elected to mostly camp.... inevitably this gave me Line breaker, and a distinct advantage in messing up the way he wanted to hold his own zone. (I didn't bother adding up some points in the end because he simply conceded.)

 

I've been saying for a while Tau are still tier 1. It's only because Eldar came out, and the shiny Wraithknight appeared that we saw such a drop in them. Now the funny question will be: will we see Eldar players decline as the old Tau guys jump one bandwagon for another? hehe... we'll see.

[Raven6826]

Astute observations as always, probably. There is a type of player who will only field an army he/she considers the best.

 

Consider the evidence of this on eBay... Tau appear dominant, suddenly a glut of dark eldar and eldar army collections are listed. 7th edition comes out and the prices on marines sky rocket while the previously premium eldar drop like a rock. IG has kept a high value as it has remained competitive..

 

My bet is that the super Tau fix (dripping sacasm at use of "fix") will see a lot of player dumping their marines and other collections and three toed wonder munchkins commanding top dollar prices.

 

Never been a follower of fads myself ;-)

[StraightSilver]

I also agree with you on fielding the company formation.

To fit it in most of the time the Tactical squads are pretty bare bones and The Devastators and Assault Marines take up a fair chunk of points that don't always guarantee a good return. However swapping them out for Centurions of either type means you eat up even more points. I am not sure the bonus of free transports actually makes it worthwhile.

My bigggest issue is I am not sure if the auxilliary units are worth it, what are your thoughts on that?

I have been running a company plus another CAD led by a librarian with a unit of scouts to get me more heavy support.

To be honest most of my successes have been running a Tacatical Marine heavy CAD which is what i did in the previous Codex but it's so close to the Company formation that it seems a waste.

Great battle report though and loving your ULtras, mine are almost done, just one more Assault Sqaud and a Dvastator Sqaud to go, but I feel your pain, mine has taken 6 years to build and paint so far....

[Cpt Rana]

I also agree with you on fielding the company formation.

 

To fit it in most of the time the Tactical squads are pretty bare bones and The Devastators and Assault Marines take up a fair chunk of points that don't always guarantee a good return. However swapping them out for Centurions of either type means you eat up even more points. I am not sure the bonus of free transports actually makes it worthwhile.

 

My bigggest issue is I am not sure if the auxilliary units are worth it, what are your thoughts on that?

 

I have been running a company plus another CAD led by a librarian with a unit of scouts to get me more heavy support.

 

To be honest most of my successes have been running a Tacatical Marine heavy CAD which is what i did in the previous Codex but it's so close to the Company formation that it seems a waste.

 

Great battle report though and loving your ULtras, mine are almost done, just one more Assault Sqaud and a Dvastator Sqaud to go, but I feel your pain, mine has taken 6 years to build and paint so far....

 

This is a interesting discussion. I see many that claim that fielding the battle company results in bare bone tactical squads. I wonder, what else do you arm your tacticals with outside a special weapon and maybe a combi on the sarge? As I see it fielding 6 small tac squads instead of 3 10 man squads lets me bring 6 special weapons instead of 3 as I never use heavy weapons in tacticals.

As I don't bring centurions the battle co is really talking to my way of playing and I think the devastator squads covers a important aspect of the army. The fast attack choices can be covered by cheap land speeders.

However I find your comments about the auxillary quite relevant. I used to field the 10th co task force consisting of one sniper squad and two cc squads with MB and combi grav to start off close to the enemies line and pop off the gravs first turn. However as mentioned in other threats the two cheap auxiliary forces (10th co and suppression force) both lack damage dealing outside anti horde/weak infantry which is already covered by the RBs and the tacs in the two demi companies. I tried the suppression force against orks which I think must be the ideal target against whirlwinds but were still disappointing. However I did only bring two whirlwinds and didn't get the shred and pinning which might have helped a bit.

 

It got me thinking if it would be more beneficial to field more sniper scouts to help engage MC and elite infantry? They could sit on all the objectives in my part of the table and thereby let the mech tac squads and podding elements grab the midfield and objectives in the enemies DZ.

 

Sorry for hijacking this threat Prot. I just thought you guys had some interesting debate going on.