Commissars and Voice of Command Fluff/Gameplay

[HenricusTyranicus]

Afternoon to the barracks,

 

Doesn't it seem that by fluff Commissars should have voice of command? Granted, the only really relevant material I've read on the matter is the Ciaphas Cain series, but in that Commissars were always displayed as being real leaders who would have no problem issuing a few orders.

 

Gameplaywise, this could give them something to actually make them worth taking over priests, although they'd probably need a points hike to compensate. Would this be broken? 

[Kontakt]

Personally, I feel this would be more appropriate for a Lord Commissar, with standard commissars pretty much leading blobs of unruly men, such as conscripts. That being said, I would agree the Commissar Lord is not worth his points, but would be worth it if he could give junior orders. This would have the added side effect of making them useful in scion units, where they aren't really all that useful.

[WarriorFish]

Commissars are leaders of men in the more setting of an example way, so it doesn't quite fit that they give orders. The support the chain of command rather than being an active part of it. The Lord Commissar is different though, as he has a command position. It's likely just a gameplay thing so he doesn't tread on the CCS's toes though as mentioned he is a bit expensive for what you get so could do with something.

 

Perhaps a bit of a compromise in that they get their own "order" like abilitiy? For example instead of giving an order he can give an epic speech to inspire the men or something similar? It'd be nice to see commissars get some more use that's for sure.

[Shamansky]

 

Gameplaywise, this could give them something to actually make them worth taking over priests, although they'd probably need a points hike to compensate. Would this be broken? 

You cannot go to ground being fearless. Priests are only useful in big HtH tarpit blobs and almost useless for gunline. Commissars are more versatile in my opinion.

and i don't think they need voice of command. The only thing they're concerned of is morale. They look after commander's orders are being enacted properly. They are not commanders themselves.

[Kontakt]

Lore wise, commissars do in fact lead troops. If they are forced to remove a senior officer, they can take his place. I would assume that they would be capable of some rudimentary orders, considering the majority of them have trained with the scions.

Rules wise, the commissar is fine but who in their right mind would pay full price for a Lord Commissar?

[Shamansky]

Lore wise, commissars do in fact lead troops. If they are forced to remove a senior officer, they can take his place. I would assume that they would be capable of some rudimentary orders, considering the majority of them have trained with the scions.

Rules wise, the commissar is fine but who in their right mind would pay full price for a Lord Commissar?

As far as i know, commissar leading troops is a kind of anomaly, not the rule. Commissar is a special political officer whose duty is to keep high morale and right thoughts in soldiers heads. He is out of chain of command. and they don't train to command stormies. 

Lord Comissar can bring some interesting fits to table if placed right/ so i would pay the full price. Now call me weird.

[HenricusTyranicus]

Thank you for your thoughts :) Is the depiction of Ciaphas Cain a generally inaccurate one then? Because he certainly gives orders even before he is a hero, for example, in his first battle when he orders Jurgen to take the Salamander away from the nids. And Benji is shown as ordering Tallarns, even though he isn't a hero either. 

[Shamansky]

Commissar Gaunt was given colonel rank to comand his troops and that was something extraordinary. Jurgen is Cain's personal assistant. Both Cain and Gaunt are not your ordinary commissars. But still they needed officers to run their regiments. That Benji was a kind of spiritual leader of very religious regiment and tallarns obeyed him when he was saying to purge heresy and treason.

Commissars only give 'orders' that make troopers obey actual commander's orders. They're really useful when high command deals with half-literate, unwillingly enlisted or inexperienced troopers. 

[librisrouge]

Giving orders in fluff /= Giving orders in game play

 

Commissars are leaders, to be sure, but they're there for discipline and to set an example, not to dictate battle strategy. If they were given Voice of Command, I would love to see it limited to the unit they were attached to, rather than given a range. It would more represent inspiring speeches and examples, than tactical brilliance.

 

While the fluff has tons of examples of commissars taking command of units, this is a rarity. Gaunt is full on unique. Cain gets extra leway because of his close relationship with regimental command (who were ALL newly promoted when the regiment was formed and relied upon him for advise moreso than usual.) Other examples are also anomalies. Commissars are more often about dealing with deserters and monitoring weakness in regimental moral than leadership in battle. In many ways, this is similar to chaplains and librarians in marine armies. Sure, they sometimes take the field in a leadership role but that is usually when the real leaders (i.e. captains and officers) are busy elsewhere.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Yeah, for example an Order like Bring It Down represents the Company Commander spotting a weakness in the Big Beastie or Tank being targeted and ordering his men to aim at it to kill it easier. They're the ones who do the creative tactical thinking, whereas Commissars merely concern themselves with making sure that the men follow these orders without question. This is represented by the Commissars giving a squad a much better Leadership value, making Orders easier to give to them.

 

Additionally, it is possible to give a Lord Commissar the Voice of Command special rule. 2/6 of the Warlord Traits do exactly that. There's no reliable way to give it because it's pretty rare for a Commissar to specialise themselves in that kind of role, hence it being up to luck whether your Lord Commissar's had that training in the past.

 

That said, due to Chain of Command, your LC can't get this ability if you have a CCS, because that regiment clearly hasn't had to rely on the LC giving out Orders, so they've never had to learn how to lead the troops in that way. You can use Yarrick to represent a Lord Commissar that has achieved that high level of respect from his troops, and a lot of tactical genius in order to be able to Order people around as well as any Company Commander could.