Ravenwing Support Squadron

[L30n1d4s]

Is it just me or is this Formation one of the best things in the DA codex (if not the game)?

 

Using 5 Land Speeders with HB/TML and a Darkshroud attached to them, the entire formation gets a 4+ cover save in the open (due Stealth and Shrouded), a 2+ cover save if they are in any kind of cover, and a 2+ re-rollable cover save if they decide to Jink.

 

Shooting-wise, they get BS5 against pretty much any ground target (from Strafing Run), they have Interceptor, and they can fire Overwatch at BS2 (most vehicles can't overwatch at all) if they are charged. With 18 HB shots and either 10 Krak Missiles or 10 Frag Missiles a turn, they are a threat to all kinds of infantry, light/medium vehicles, and even can be used as "improvised AA" platforms if you cast Prescience on them.

 

If you need to seize/hold objectives, just move them 12"/flat out another 24" (for a total move of 36" in one turn), then absorb enemy return fire by jinking with a re-rollable 2+ cover save (i.e. that gives them a 97% chance to save every glancing/penetrating hit they receive).

 

 

Anyone else find this formation to be one of the most potent new additions to the Sons of the Lion?

[PhilB]

It's pretty solid. I usually use 3 HB/TML 'Speeders with a HB Shroud and it usually does very well. I like to keep my other 2 MM/AC 'Speeders for my RW Attack Squadrons.

Just watching people holding onto their deep strikers looking around the map while constantly glancing back at the squadron is pretty funny.

I've yet to use them vs DS'ing terminators though, so the lack of the LSV hasn't been noticed yet.

 

Just one thing to note though, area terrain doesn't affect vehicles like it does infantry, you still need 25% obscurity, FYI.

[JeffJedi]

I'm building my third Typhoon right now.

[L30n1d4s]

PhilB,

 

Good point about area terrain, edited to correct that.

[Centurio]

I've been using 5 speeders with assault cannons and a darkshroud, and it's amazing...

[Interrogator Stobz]

Sableclaw plus nothing but speeders in RWSSs sounds a juicy army.....I'd better start saving money :P

 

My RWASs are strong enough with one RWSS supporting them, an army of RWSSs would be too much :lol:

 

I prefer the LSV over the DS but I'm looking to add a DS to my second RWSS just for the lolz (There's a tonne of cover ignoring shooting in my regular opponents shooting so not much chance of rerolling 2+). 

 

I did get charged last game, from behind so only the turret on the LSV got to shoot overwatch, didn't do squat. Well maneuvered Mr Dante Sir :tu:

[Cypher 102]

Don't forget the full BS overwatch if they're part of a Lion's Blade.

[Malakithe]

Makes for a good auxiliary 'tax' for a lion's blade. I like the vengence for more long range pew pew. Great fire platform for the lion's blade

[stuka06]

I actually forgot their BS5 in my last game. One in which they were able to fire overwatch 3 times.
That ain't happening again

[SnakeChisler]

Normally you have "no duplicate formations allowed" in every local comp I've ever been in

 

Lets be honest with ourselves that's a pretty sensible rule which we carry over to the club and friends match ups, imagine an army of Psyker Bikers from codex SM all rolling 2+ all with invisibility, extreme case I know but you get the drift!

 

The only exception to this I've seen is double Demi or Double LB as they are treated as a single Formation

 

Of course your always able to broach the subject with your opponent but given how powerful it is then I'd be loath to push it myself

 

After a lot of playing with this formation it is a real bullet magnet and personally 3 Typhoons is as far as I take it while you could put a couple of non upgraded speeders out front to guard the workhorse missiles once it gets to 300 points I feel it just sucks resources from other areas, also the footprint gets unmanageable (we play with a decent amount of terrain). The twin HB version for smaller point games is cool and the Assault cannon version is brutal even if your jinking, rather than spend the points on additinal speeders I buy a Librarian and use Prescience so there twin linking them all the time.

 

I have found though with the assault cannons that you get out of range quite a bit especially for overwatch but on the upside its a winner for downing aircraft.

 

In terms of the LSV I've run it a couple of times and its so so with gets hot and needing to jink more often than not, while better than its previous incarnation its still expensive for what it is and a Dark Talon does a better job while having better mobility

 

As I said earlier we always play with a decent amount of Terrain so spamming high volume of shots such as Splash Missiles/Assault Cannons/ Heavy Bolters works best for me.

[BlodVargarna]

For 11 meltabombs each, a unit of 5 double HB puts out loads of accurate dakka, esp with the 5BS.

 

I wish I had the cash for a bunch of land speeders because this formation is pretty awesome.

[ValourousHeart]

Normally you have "no duplicate formations allowed" in every local comp I've ever been in

 

Lets be honest with ourselves that's a pretty sensible rule which we carry over to the club and friends match ups, imagine an army of Psyker Bikers from codex SM all rolling 2+ all with invisibility, extreme case I know but you get the drift!

 

The only exception to this I've seen is double Demi or Double LB as they are treated as a single Formation

I don't understood that mentality today.

From what I understand it comes from the old rule about not have 2 identical IC, which was to make those indiviuals truely individuals.

Then it was expanded to include duplciates of any unit, which was used to stop people from spamming units.

But in both of those instances you could take 2 Chaplains or 2 Tactical Squads... you just had to make them different by taking different upgrades.

 

Now it is used to prevent people from taking 2 of the same formation.

But it isn't applied universally... they cherry pick which formations they do and don't allow.

 

So if I take a LB, can you double up on the Auxillary choices the way you can double up on the core choice?

Or is it only the core that you can duplicate?

[Interrogator Stobz]

THIS.IS.SPARTA!!! (SEVENTH!!!!)

Restrictions seem stupid, this game is unblalanced, if you want to win just spam the best stuff, if you want to play your units, prepare to lose vs WAACers.

BUT...this is getting off the topic of RWSS being great.

 

Back on topic: the RWSS is a very good formation, it makes some of our most efficient (pointwise) units even better and even more flexible, at the small tax of having to take the ugliest chassis vehicle in the 40k ooniverse. They even had sense to mostly fix those horrible versions.

Now is it one of the best? With it's flexibility of loadouts, can it deal with every type of opposition? Wraithknights? Riptides? Other Cheeseness? Anyone care to run some comparisons?

[dtse]

Personally I love the idea of a floating shrine. Kinda cool haha

[Interrogator Stobz]

Yeah dtse; I can see the attraction, I just don't have it for GWs version . My LSV is a concerted FW LS Javelin, and I am about to order another to convert to a 'floating shrine' LS/DS

[Master Avoghai]

Is it just me or is this Formation one of the best things in the DA codex (if not the game)?

 

Using 5 Land Speeders with HB/TML and a Darkshroud attached to them, the entire formation gets a 4+ cover save in the open (due Stealth and Shrouded), a 2+ cover save if they are in any kind of cover, and a 2+ re-rollable cover save if they decide to Jink.

 

Shooting-wise, they get BS5 against pretty much any ground target (from Strafing Run), they have Interceptor, and they can fire Overwatch at BS2 (most vehicles can't overwatch at all) if they are charged . With 18 HB shots and either 10 Krak Missiles or 10 Frag Missiles a turn, they are a threat to all kinds of infantry, light/medium vehicles, and even can be used as "improvised AA" platforms if you cast Prescience on them.

 

Don't forget that both the points that have underlined are subject to caution.

 

1- the fact that the squadron can profit from the -2 AND the -1 is highly debatable (personnaly I think it's one OR the other)

2- the wording of the Ravenshield special rule is unclear because it seems to imply that the squadron is able to overwatch only if a friendly unit gets charged but not the squadron itself.

[SnakeChisler]

Just checked the Strafing run rule it doesn't say shooting phase only

 

The formation has grim resolve so your getting the BS buff & the Ravenshield just states anything with the ravenwing rule in 24 which it has and is.

 

Sloppy writing or intended?

 

I think it's a bit of both, I can't see the Strafing run as intended and snap firing is a fixed modifier but it just says +1 so at the moment your quite within your rights to claim bs2 +1

 

Ravenshield? Well it can overwatch for a start which is not normal for vehicles so guess intended

[Brother dean]

Its own unit is also a friendly unit...  I think I saw that somewhere in the BGB..  I will look for it...

[Master Avoghai]

Just checked the Strafing run rule it doesn't say shooting phase only

The formation has grim resolve so your getting the BS buff & the Ravenshield just states anything with the ravenwing rule in 24 which it has and is.

Sloppy writing or intended?

I think it's a bit of both, I can't see the Strafing run as intended and snap firing is a fixed modifier but it just says +1 so at the moment your quite within your rights to claim bs2 +1

Ravenshield? Well it can overwatch for a start which is not normal for vehicles so guess intended

The +1 BS apply on the base BS of the model. Hence it's BS 4+1 => overwatching => BS2

 

That's the difference with a +1 to hit BS4 => overwatching => BS2 => roll to hit 5+ +1 => 4+

[dtse]

According to rulebook. Snap shots are BS 1 unless the rule that modifies the BS specifically says it modifies snap shots. Which I don't believe strafing run says. So I don't think strafing run boosts over watch. That's how I read it

[Brother dean]

Correct.  Nothing boosts snapshots unless the buff says it does.  Strafing run does not say it does.

[aura_enchanted]

its not that great, the biggest issue is that you cant use the squadron without other ravenwing. however it has some interesting implications, if ou were to ask me what was the best formation in game id probably pick the hammer of caliban. its the closest to absolutely broken you can get without actually being broken. if it was any forgeworld tanks as well (or if your friends let you) that formation is a monster. the hammer of caliban could in theory kill whole armies by itself if you tear that barrier down and its price tag makes it spammable.

 

the hammer can kill the lions blade, predators and redeemer just shut the whole formation down, your special rule is wasted and its tough to crack av 13's and 14's with single shots of lascannon really tough, ask anyone whos tried to kill tanks with the single lascannons from solo heavy weapons teams even twin linked. and youd spend the game getting popped and then crushed by pinning flamestorms.

[Malakithe]

Can't use without other ravenwing? What? Just to use one of the many special rules it has? Nope. A lot of people can't look past ravenshield for some reason. I use it for what it was intended to be...a long range fire 'support' platform. Extremely mobile, 36" range everything, anti-alpha strike.

 

The hammer sounds/looks cool but it can be alpha melta'd like anything else.

[aura_enchanted]

Can't use without other ravenwing? What? Just to use one of the many special rules it has? Nope. A lot of people can't look past ravenshield for some reason. I use it for what it was intended to be...a long range fire 'support' platform. Extremely mobile, 36" range everything, anti-alpha strike.

 

The hammer sounds/looks cool but it can be alpha melta'd like anything else.

 

except the part where your going to struggle to alpha melta strike with only 500 points to spend. the support squadron is strong but if it starts on table its not alpha striking anything, its moving up the table and then sitting there right in time for me to move up and flamestorm at point blank, you dont get jink against flamers do you? especially ones with armourbane against your av10 hides. and at that point ive already traded and broken all kinds of points in your army. a land raider at 12" from land speeders is a wolf amongst chickens. they have a funny habbit of running away or getting crushed

 

the hammer also would be immune to melta if it allows for forge vehicles (which as noted some circles might let you get away with) so your melta guns wont be very productive on that front, even en mass. its a land raider that self repairs on a 5+ with bs5. after turn 1 you lose your jink re-roll so come turn 2 your sunk

 

in a one on one fight of PTA the rwss suffers the warth of the hammer every time regardless of its loadout because at the end of the day you cant kill a land raider and he can kill you. and thats assming you even have prepared in advance for the hammer which not everyone would do. in a real world scenario here your not packing meltas on every speeder and you might not even bringing a lsv. youd have to figure out how to stop a land raider with weapons like heavy bolters, and flamers, good uh.. good luck with that

 

the ravenshield IS the reason you take the support squadron. if your not using ravenshield your paying to free up some slots from your ravenwing strike force for bikes, and maybe a heavy support slot for a second vengeance. the ability for them to intercept is largely worthless when you can have much better sources of it. they can also strafing run but thats a lot better units for strafing runs for relatively cheaper. while i dont have my imperial armour here in front of me a thunderhawk is only what 400 points? and the fire raptor is 220 base? so for the same points you can get a better quality gun platform that will last longer than raven speeders for less and if your against forgeworld then theres always the sky silencers with their s10 ap1 potential vortex rift cannons of justice, and the storm wing of course with its assault cannons and skyhammers.

 

simply put the support squadron was made for the ravenwing and if your only taking the support squadron your asking them to go fighting with one foot in a bucket

[Malakithe]

So your telling me the only reason to take the support squad is to sit there and overwatch whoever shoots your other bikes? Nope. The RWSS in a lion's blade is there it lend fire support with 3×HB/TML+LSV. At 36" you can stand back and protect your rear while the battle company moves up.

 

I don't use ravenwing at all outside of the RWSS. What else can you toss in a lion's blade that provides that much firepower and move that fast for the points? If there is a auxiliary formation I missed I'll check it out.