How do you balance AV vs AI?

[GruntAngel]

I have enough models to build both a black night ravenwing formation and a demi company.

 

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I have 2 drop pods, 1 rhino and 1 razorback I'll try to build as a rhino for transport (more rhinos to come but so far, I'll start build what I have).

 

I have 1 landraider, 1 predators, 1 dreadnought for heavy vehicles.

 

Infantry wise I have 30 marines. 10 scouts, 1 assault squad, 1 command squad. 1 librarian.

 

I have 1 squad of terminator and I'm not sure if I want to build the second one as Knight or regular termis.

 

Finaly I have 9 dark knights including one command squad + the land speeder Dark Shroud.

 

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I might have been a little overboard spending all that without playing a single game for 10 years but it was brand new stuff with a 30% rebate and no taxes... :P I've always been a huge fan of the universe and finally deciced to jump into the glory with a Dark Angel army.

 

I've watched a lot of battle reports, read the rules and the codex toroughtly. But still. How many anti vehicles should I put in general for let say 1000 and 1850 points?

 

I know this must look extremely vague since everything could be done depending on someone taste but then again I'm hoping your experience will allow you to come up with an answer of some kind. Any comment will help.

[jbaeza94]

I think it depends on your meta, and the presence of both vehicles and infantry.

 

But personally, I run a 4x las or 2x las 2x ml devastator squad (something you forgot to add, you need one for demi) as my main av infantry.

I also use a plasma gun in each tac squad, and points permiting, a plasma cannon. Not strictly av or ai, but it can do both decently well.

I use 2 termie squads

1x chain fist, plasma cannon, powers word

1x chain fist, assault canon, lightning claws

I deepstrike them and hunt harder targets, wether they're butt kicking vehicles or strong infantry. I feel one would not be enough in my pay style and list.

 

the dreadnought. I would go assault cannon every time. It can pop light transport pretty easily, and can rend av14 to death with good rolls. But expect him to draw a lot of fire, and to get into cc, since it's more of a up close dread than a sit back and fire dread. If you want to sit back, a mortis aautocannon i hear is great, aND it gets skyfire for taking out flyers.

 

For the predator, I suggest auto cannon las cannon sponsons. Triple las is very strong but also very expensive. This has worked for me as my dedicated av vehicle.

 

It is my opinion that each squad must be able to handle at least light av to an extent, but not lose track of what that unit is made for. it is important to have at least one dedicated av,. That would be your devs in a demi company, and possibly your dread.

 

I don't ever play ravenwing, but their plasma talons seem amazing. I'm sure someone else could help give insight to them.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I try to go for more or less a reasonable approach. Every chunk of 500 points, I try to include an anti-infantry unit and and anti tank unit, or one of the former and other that can do both jobs. I don't actually tool against a specific army so I build the army vs all-comers. After a battle I re-access what was good and what was not, maintain or change what I didn't like.

[Knight Angels]

Add a mm to the landraider (multiroll)

Add devastarors with lasercannons (anti heavy) or heavy bolters (anti infantry)

Add a rw bikesquad with 2 melters and an attackbike with mm (tank hunter) or get some speeders with typhoon and or mm/heavy bolter

I also recomend vindicators for more fun

 

And get some knights! ^^

[Berzul]

Devs with 4 Missile Launchers works well for me. Sure, the added strength of the Lascannon makes for better anti vehicle, but the missile launchers make for more versatility. 4 s8 shots can punch through most stuff at 48 inches, and if there are no vehicles around, then 4 frag blasts can handle light infantry too.

[Knight Angels]

You get even more with the land speeder typhoon. You can add mm and comined with its speed its super multiroll.

Take two to three of them.

[GruntAngel]

Thanks a lot for the feedback guys. I was planning on using my command squad for the devs but I just bought a box.

 

I guess the guns you use depend a lot on how you deploy and use your troops.

 

First game next week. We'll see how it go.

[Knight of the Raven]

*looks at plans for heavy bolters, whirlwinds, heavy flamers, volkite of all kinds and frag deathstorm drop pods*

 

...balance?

[SnakeChisler]

I use 2 Grav Cannons on the Dev Squad

 

1 Las in each of the Tac Squads * 2

1 Assault weapon (Melta / Plasma / Grav)

 

In Rhino's then take it from there others have their own favorites Rockets for me are best on the Speeder.

 

Build the DreadNaught with the Heavy Flamer and I always use the Twin linked Las but then I don't tend to drop pod them behind enemy lines, you don't need to stick the Weapon arm on so you can swap, mines magnetized in the middle for ease of transport

 

Magnet your sgts arms so you can swap combi weapons in general you only combi  on the 1's venturing forward

 

When you build stuff its a good Idea to have some elastic bands around for the vehicles, I use them all over the place to make sure the joints are tight as the glue dries

 

Drop pods are a nightmare to build they were designed by the devil himself to torture your very soul read the instructions very carefully done right the doors stay up a fraction off and they fall open all the time

[GruntAngel]

At this point, since I'm having only one predator the side lascannons with a regular autocannon might be the best for my current army.

 

I bought the dark vengeance set, so my regular bikes are equiped with multi bolters and one have a plasma gun. It's unfortunate since I really would have liked to put some multi melta instead but I gotta do with what I got. That's less av on the other hand. That make me ask if I should invest in the twin link lascannon for my pred.

 

I don't think terminators are very good so far. They often die quite quickly in most battle reports I've seen and cost a lot of points. The deathwing knights are never well used neither on the other hand being left alone by the opponment as soon as they drop and being taken care of only at the end of the game, if ever. But they are an exclusive part of our army and I was thinking about building 5 of them since again I already have 5 other terminators from the dark vengeance box set. Or maybe getting 10 terminators to get a fully fonctionnal deathwing would be better? (so the knights wouldn't really be worth it in you opinion).

 

For my devastator I'm kinda stuck with what's in the box again, so one weapon of each which don't seem to be very focused. I guess putting them in a rhino and chose the right weapon depending of the range of my ennemy would be the thing to do for now. I'll get more guns later. I guess I can buy guns or must I buy other devastator boxes? Or over the web maybe.

 

Assault will be 1 flamer per 5 man with their jump pack. That' should be cool.

 

For the command squad of Dark Knights basicaly they are like the regular ones with a few more options and they use an elite slot instead right? I guess I'll build them in case I feel like fielding them at a future time.

 

For the dreadnought I was thinking heavy flamer with autocannon. To go with the drop pod and maybe make him venerable to rise it's chance of survival since it will be one of my few mechanical units and I want him to tank in close combat as well.

 

The unit I can't really take a decision with is the Dark Talon/Nephilim. Both builds seems great in their own way and cost the same amount of points. The Dark Talon seems a bit better at cleansing infantry but I wonder how much the Nephilim could save my ass regarding Armors and mostly flyers with his missiles. I've read a discussion about the Nephilim but in your experience which one perform better in general? 

 

After all that being said I'm still worried about lacking proper amount of AV. So I guess getting some melta guns for my squad of marines will be the way to go. I intend to use that overwatch as much as possible so range might be an issue with that set up but I guess you can't have everything.

 

Libby seems to be used a lot which is cool. I don't think I'll buy any hero and the interrogator chaplain, altought pretty cool in look, seems to cost just a little bit too much unless you put him on a bike to tank in close combat. Not exactly what you're looking for when the said bikes of the rest of the squad possess twin linked plasma guns.

 

Would taking the time to find a way to equipe some regular bikes with multi melta would be worth it so I can equip my marines with other special weapons like say, an heavy flamer with melta bombs, or a missile launcher if possible (ok vs infantry and useful against flyers and armors) or so far my plan can work in general with just a few melta?

 

Thanks to help a green in need!

[march10k]

The best balance is to find systems that can handle both very very well.  For example, a vindicator...a crusaderload of DWK....assault marines with eviscerators and meltabombs.