Weekender New stuff and reveals: heresy edition discussion

[Slips]

I'm so thinking of doing a Dark Angel Dreadwing with loads of dreads.

So literally a Dreadwing.

Yep!

Good on ya.

Having Drafted a few Dreadhead Lists using 15+ Dreads, I get ya

[Emperor's Furor]

I want all the variants, so this one will definitely get in, the idea being the wing is primarily made up of old 1st Legion Terrans.

[Lord Blackwood]

grandpa wing 

[Emperor's Furor]

In their walking coffins crushing everything beneath them.

[Lord Blackwood]

GET OFF MY LAWN HERETIC ! 

[Ishagu]

Guys, I'm really disappointed with the new Dread.

 

Just to clarify, I love the model and it's weapon options. It's definitely a model I'd LIKE to include in both my 30 and 40k force.

 

The rules are really... Unfinished.

Where is the Drop Pod transport option?

It can't be taken in squadrons in 30k which isn't a big issue normally, but there is no way I'd drop my existing Heavy Support units for it.

 

My big problem however, is the points cost. With an upgrade or two he costs more than a Wraithknight, almost as much as an Imperial Knight.... And for what? An av13 Walker!? In a meta swimming with haywire, sunder and high strength, low ap Weapons I simply can't ever justify fielding this. In 40k grav and D weapons would make this unplayable.

 

I'm not a crazed power gamer, but I can't just handicap myself either. I want to buy this model, but the rules are a letdown for me.

[noigrim]

it's not that good against tanks, since the bombard has no strength 3D6-10S medium for just 80pts more you can get an errant who does the anti termies/hand to hand tank destrucion job better and it's an unstoppable superheavy

[Slips]

it's not that good against tanks, since the bombard has no strength 3D6-10S medium for just 80pts more you can get an errant who does the anti termies/hand to hand tank destrucion job better and it's an unstoppable superheavy

Sure, its not great vs Tanks but vs Any Infantry? Bye bye.

[Emperor's Furor]

Claw and storm cannon for me I think, maybe the calivers to.

[1ncarnadine]

 

it's not that good against tanks, since the bombard has no strength 3D6-10S medium for just 80pts more you can get an errant who does the anti termies/hand to hand tank destrucion job better and it's an unstoppable superheavy

Sure, its not great vs Tanks but vs Any Infantry? Bye bye.

 

 

Maybe. Since it has no strength value it can't inflict Instant Death, and it will never ignore FnP. So I could pay over 300 points for the Leviathan and dish out two pie-plates at short ranges.... or I could load up with two medusas. Or for the same kind of job, the Typhon at 350 pts, which also Ignores Cover.

 

I feel like the Leviathan needs some kind of boost in its resilience to justify its high pricetag, like an extra hp or maybe if it just came with armoured ceramite as standard. Pretty sure most opponents will focus these guys off the table ASAP. 5hp and the persistent 4++ could let it weather some fire and help ensure that with careful placement and Move Through Cover abuse, you can get it stuck in and make a difference.

 

The other issue is that it's on 80mm, and FW probably consider it too big for podding. Which is a shame, because if it had any kind of pod option it would be significantly better. I guess you could pod it with a Kharybdis? But that's seriously expensive...

[Athrawes]

Why wouldn't the dreadnought drop pod be able to carry it? The Dread drop pod says it can be used for any dreadnought or dreadnought variant. I'm pretty sure a Leviathan pattern Dreadnought Is a dreadnought variant.

[dansupvi]

Why was Marshal Loss banned for posting all this info?

 

EDIT: Apparently it was an accident by the mods and he will be unbanned soon

[Emperor's Furor]

Actually now that I've looked at it, that grav flux bombard would mush terminators and still do pretty well vs vehicles to. No need to have the storm cannon when you have a deredeo with plasma.

[1ncarnadine]

Why wouldn't the dreadnought drop pod be able to carry it? The Dread drop pod says it can be used for any dreadnought or dreadnought variant. I'm pretty sure a Leviathan pattern Dreadnought Is a dreadnought variant.

 

Because dread drop pods are a dedicated transport and the Leviathan doesn't have an option to take them. I checked Orbital Assault too, no go. It only calls out regular Dreads and Contemptors.

[Athrawes]

 

Why wouldn't the dreadnought drop pod be able to carry it? The Dread drop pod says it can be used for any dreadnought or dreadnought variant. I'm pretty sure a Leviathan pattern Dreadnought Is a dreadnought variant.

 

Because dread drop pods are a dedicated transport and the Leviathan doesn't have an option to take them. I checked Orbital Assault too, no go. It only calls out regular Dreads and Contemptors.

 

 

I hadn't considered that, I think it's probably an oversight. Until that gets sorted out, just plop them in an fast attack Anvillus Dreadclaw.

[Slips]

Also, if you're an Apoc Player, a Stormbird and Thunderhawk have no restrictions on Carrying them.

 

So, would be interesting to see how this fares against a knight if it gets to charge first. I5 Means that It'll at least get to hit first and if he's using Two Siege Drills thats still 5 S10 Armorbane hits + 2 S8 Hammer of Wraths.

 

And, unlike a Knight, barring the Lancer it has a 4++ in CC.

 

The claws are also going to Rip through Multi-Wound models like no tomorrow.

[1000 Sons]

Guys, I'm really disappointed with the new Dread.

 

Just to clarify, I love the model and it's weapon options. It's definitely a model I'd LIKE to include in both my 30 and 40k force.

 

The rules are really... Unfinished.

Where is the Drop Pod transport option?

It can't be taken in squadrons in 30k which isn't a big issue normally, but there is no way I'd drop my existing Heavy Support units for it.

 

My big problem however, is the points cost. With an upgrade or two he costs more than a Wraithknight, almost as much as an Imperial Knight.... And for what? An av13 Walker!? In a meta swimming with haywire, sunder and high strength, low ap Weapons I simply can't ever justify fielding this. In 40k grav and D weapons would make this unplayable.

 

I'm not a crazed power gamer, but I can't just handicap myself either. I want to buy this model, but the rules are a letdown for me.

This competitive mentality is what has mainly driven me to 30k.  Reading about peoples armies and fluff and the little they cared about winning, and stomping an army in 2 turns was truly refreshing.  Last thing I want to see is 30k turning into a game of 4-5 lists that all you need to do is plug in your legion specific units and it's done.  If you like a model, put it in your army. 

[1ncarnadine]

 

 

Why wouldn't the dreadnought drop pod be able to carry it? The Dread drop pod says it can be used for any dreadnought or dreadnought variant. I'm pretty sure a Leviathan pattern Dreadnought Is a dreadnought variant.

 

Because dread drop pods are a dedicated transport and the Leviathan doesn't have an option to take them. I checked Orbital Assault too, no go. It only calls out regular Dreads and Contemptors.

 

 

I hadn't considered that, I think it's probably an oversight. Until that gets sorted out, just plop them in an fast attack Anvillus Dreadclaw.

 

 

That's what I'm hoping. It'd be nice to have that cheaper option and not have to use both a HS and a FA slot.

[Brother Heinrich]

 

Guys, I'm really disappointed with the new Dread.

 

Just to clarify, I love the model and it's weapon options. It's definitely a model I'd LIKE to include in both my 30 and 40k force.

 

The rules are really... Unfinished.

Where is the Drop Pod transport option?

It can't be taken in squadrons in 30k which isn't a big issue normally, but there is no way I'd drop my existing Heavy Support units for it.

 

My big problem however, is the points cost. With an upgrade or two he costs more than a Wraithknight, almost as much as an Imperial Knight.... And for what? An av13 Walker!? In a meta swimming with haywire, sunder and high strength, low ap Weapons I simply can't ever justify fielding this. In 40k grav and D weapons would make this unplayable.

 

I'm not a crazed power gamer, but I can't just handicap myself either. I want to buy this model, but the rules are a letdown for me.

This competitive mentality is what has mainly driven me to 30k.  Reading about peoples armies and fluff and the little they cared about winning, and stomping an army in 2 turns was truly refreshing.  Last thing I want to see is 30k turning into a game of 4-5 lists that all you need to do is plug in your legion specific units and it's done.  If you like a model, put it in your army. 

 

THIS. ALL OF THIS.

 

30k is literally about the fluff. There is zero reason to play otherwise. Look at it form a xenos gamer perspective. It's just Marines killing Marines, or different skittle colors of Marines running around with other colors of Marines right? Yes. It is all of that from a functional standpoint. but that's not why we play it.

 

We play 30k because we love the fictional history and the cool sci-fi tech.

 

Play what you love against other 30k people who have the same mentality and you will never have a bad game, win or lose. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but some of us like 30k because it is relatively more balanced than normal 40k (note that relatively does not mean "is balanced"); some people, like Hesh, have a very strong competitive community around 30k. It's not unfair for people to make purchases based on efficacy of rules, especially if that's what you get out of the game. Personally I love the setting, but let's not pretend that the setting is the only appeal and the sole reason to play a game. At least let people talk about rules efficacy in a forum that has both rules and tactics subforums

[fedratsailor]

im just starting to work on what i want to buy in the future for an Ordo Reductor force.  the total lack of OMG WAAC is what has finally seen me the light.  its so refreshing.

 

Whats everyones take on the Atrapos. me personally I'm digging it. to me it is the most point/rules balanced knight so far.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

The benefits of not playing or really caring too much at all about the rules of a model are manifold. That new dread is gonna look great with my Crimson Sons.

[Brother Heinrich]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but some of us like 30k because it is relatively more balanced than normal 40k (note that relatively does not mean "is balanced"); some people, like Hesh, have a very strong competitive community around 30k. It's not unfair for people to make purchases based on efficacy of rules, especially if that's what you get out of the game. Personally I love the setting, but let's not pretend that the setting is the only appeal and the sole reason to play a game. At least let people talk about rules efficacy in a forum that has both rules and tactics subforums

True enough, my statement was rather sweeping. Rules definitely factor in, otherwise I wouldn't post so much in the Army List subforum. I should have said that a good portion of the reason for playing 30k is the storyline and setting, but it is not the penultimate reason or aspect of enjoyment for everyone.

 

Regardless, it's one of those things were on this particular unit has a steep price but if you like it enough, you'll end up playing it. That's just how this game is. Everyone takes Contemptor Mortis dreads even though a regular Mortis will do the exact same job and be cheaper for it.

 

Function follows form for many people who play 30k, but obviously not all. There's also nothing wrong with both being present in a model as well. Enjoy what you enjoy for your personal reasons. However I will say that a "Win-at-all-costs" mindset is poisonous to the enjoyment of the game. Maybe not for that person, but for anyone else they play with, especially another WAAC gamer ironically enough.

[Lord Blackwood]

I find it difficult to infer a WAAC mindset from what Ishagu said though. He offered strong points as to why he did not think the unit was terribly attractive. They arent unfair to the unit really nor did they strike me as particularly untrue. 

While I think the model looks fantastic and I want to build one for my dudes cause it looks fantastic the odds are that fielding it vs something else in the heavy support slot may not be the best idea. 

To be fair id rather run this than a deredo but thats cause I think the boobie dreadnought looks dumb.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I definitely agree with you on a lot of th points, especially the part about trying to make your favorite models fit into lists. However, there's a theme in this head about equating waac with competitive players, which isn't accurate or fair.