Anti Air...

[SM1981]

Looking for a bit of advice from some players who are more experienced with the vastly expanded set of space marine vehicles / 40K vehicles than I obviously am (last time I played actively the only tanks available to Space Marines were the Land Raiders, Predators, and Rhino's - pre Whirlwind days!).

 

So Flyers...

 

Lots of armies have access to them. Do players use them, and if so what is the best anti air set up to combat them. I like the look (aesthetically) of the Deredo's, but are they effective? Is it appropriate to field a couple of real fliers (Thunderhawks, Stormtalons, etc), as an active deterrent - or is that just a points dump on excessive army list bling?

 

What about Tarantulas / Hyperios sentry guns? Effective or just a nod back to the days of Space Crusade?

 

Any thoughts and input greatly recieved!

[Charlo]

Deredeos will murder anything in the skies very easily.

 

Failing that, Stormraven Multi-Meltas and missiles are pretty great against them. Even better you ally in a Stormwing from the codex, as Stormtalons absolutely rule the skies with TLAC and SHML :)

[Ishagu]

I second Charlo.

 

A Deredeo is an excellent AA unit that doesn't waste your points in a situation where an opponent doesn't bring flyers as it generally performs very well as a ranged anti armour and anti infantry unit.

[SM1981]

Any preference / recommendations on weapons loadout? Both kits look mean - like an ED209 has fisted an anti air battery and then had a boob job just for kicks. I'm leaning towards to autocannon and aiolos option but that's more because of a long standing bias I have against the unreliability of plasma weapons than any real tactical insight.

[Karhedron]

The Deredeo is nice but at £65 each they may stress your bank balance more than your points limit.

I wonder if I could convert one out of an old Space Crusade plastic Dread?

[Frater Antodeniel]

Even if i still not have one, by purely looking at the Rules, the Dereado Dreadnought fit totally in the war logic of the Blood Angels and provide excellent AA support, and can be deployed via Drop Pod =). (Yeah, i know, but i can only imagine Blood Angels Assault via Drop Pod/Jump Pack from high orbit/and Stormraven deployment^^).

 

Edit :

 

Karhedronuk : You don't need to have more than 1 Deredeo, and for the Dreadnought.....you make me remember that they were Support in 5th ed. ;s

[SM1981]

Thoughts on Whirlwinds and / or Stalkers?

 

Is the added mobility of any real use or are they just rhino adaptions for the sake of rhino adaption?

[Karhedron]

The Hunter and Stalker struck me as poor value due to their inflexibility. You will struggle to get much mileage out of them if your opponent has not brought flyers (or at least skimmers in the case of the Hunter).

 

Rather than spend points on a situational weapon, I would rather spend a bit more and get something flexible which I know will kill a variety of targets. Both Deredeo and Stormraven fit this criterion, which you opt for depends on what you have in the rest of your army.

 

The army I am currently working on is very fast with short-ranged weapons and CC being the main emphasis. For this reason, I would take the Stormraven as a Deredeo would get a bit left behind. But they are similar points cost and both very effective AA so whichever you like better or fits better with your plans.

[Charlo]

If the (insert name of AA tank with the auto cannon like weapon) had a ground fire option, it'd be a great tank.

 

Sadly it does not. Move on.

 

A fun move with whirlwinds is take a space marine ally, Telion as warlord and three whirlwinds. Enjoy your ignore cover, rending, shredding and pinning templates of doom.

[evildrcheese]

Without going to FW, our best pure AA is the SR, with MM and AC. The MM / LC is also worth considering, but the low rate of fire doesn't work in it's favour, but since since everything has ap2 min you stand a better chance of blowing something out the sky.

 

Saying that...the AC/ TML has good row and lots of mid-high s shots.

 

In summary, Storm Ravens are brilliant.

 

D

[Jolemai]

Just to add my 2p worth, in our Codex the best option is by far the Stormraven in which I echo the above statement(s). Currently, the only other option is flakk missiles which are an upgrade to any missile launcher. If you give these to a Troop choice (Tactical or Scout) you're looking at 1 in 5 gaining Skyfire and the rest wasting their shots (also with Scouts being BS 3 this is a very unpopular choice). If you give them to Sternguard (2 in 5) then not only are you wasting the ammunition, but with the base cost already being high this isn't particularly efficient. Placed on Devastators (4 in 5) can work but with the missiles only being STR 7 AP 4, it's not exactly foolproof. This is also becoming rather expensive.

 

Many of our Detachments come with a Fortification slot. This can be filled with a choice from Stronghold Assault, with the main two Gun Emplacements being the Icarus lascannon (96", STR 9, AP 2, Heavy 1, Interceptor, Skyfire) and the quad gun (48", STR 7, AP 4, Heavy 4, Interceptor, Skyfire, Twin-linked). These are easy to acquire and cheap to fit in an army.

 

Discounting allies, the next path to go down is Forgeworld. Regarding Flyers, the compatibility for the Fire Raptor Gunship, Storm Eagle Assault Gunship, Xiphon Interceptor and both Marauders in our forces has been discussed here. Whilst it's a bit pricey for anti-air use alone, the Thunderhawk is discussed here.Should you want an anti-air Land Raider, the Helios variant has been discussed here, whilst the Whirldwind Hyperios Air Defence Tank has been discussed here. (Note that sadly, these aren't very efficient right now and is in need of an update) Normal Whirlwinds do not have any anti-air capability and we don't have access to Stalkers or Hunters outside of allies. The Deredeo and Tarantulas have been discussed here. Regarding efficiency or the Tarantulas, they aren't point and click but can be made to work. The only one with anti-air capability is the Hyperios version and this suffers as per the Land Raider Helios and Whirlwind Hyperios. Note that we don't have access to regular Contemptors or Contemptor-mortis'.

 

 

 

Hmm, this gives me an idea for another guide...

[Cronhour]

It depends how you want to play, it's feasible to ignore flyers altogether, if you have a lot of bodies as opposed to expensive vehicles vulnerable to flyers you can just play around them as it's hard for them to kill stuff fast enough ( except maybe heldrakes but I rarely see them since the demise of the 360 torrent flamer) but if you want to a storm Raven is good at it (though expensive and vulnerable to the opponents aa costing you 200 plus points the turn it arrives.

 

Deredo is good but also expensive and vulnerable to drop pod alpha so requires turn one protection.

 

The tarantulas are cheaper and usually not important enough for your opponent to target early on, though you'll want the full compliment as one or two bs3 ap3 missiles often won't get the result you're after.

 

Flak missiles do a job but I'd prefer to try and add a Libby in with divination if using Devs as the rerolls on higher strength Kark missiles can do the job against a small number of flyers while still giving you aa and a Good benefit everywhere else.

 

Also remember to play mysterious objectives, the amount of times sky fire nexus comes up in my games is unreal.

 

My thoughts, I used to use flyers and flyer defence ( a sicarian isn't bad in a princh either with twin linked, ignoring mink str7 rending,) but now I tend to just try and get as many bodies on the table and up the table as quickly as possible. Pods and packs with the odd rhino or two thrown in, veritas vitae a must, who cares if they've two storm talons in the sky if your DC and sanguinary guard are getting stealth and move through cover for no dangerous terrain tests and 3up cover saves. I'd say have a play without, proxy a few choices in and see how you feel. Find the army that fits your play style as well as the needs of your local meta.

[dakkamasta]

Also if you're considering going down the FW path, don't forget about the Sicaran Battle Tank upgrade with the Legacy of Glory that gives skyfire, interceptor, tank hunter, and night vision to 1 gun, once per game (battle of sarosh i think it's called). Using this on the Sicaran will reliably bring down a flyer on the turn it arrives almost every time. You'll be getting 6 twin-linked S 7 AP 4 rending shots that reroll failed armour pen rolls with no jink saves allowed, firing on your opponents turn. Yes it's only 1 use per game, but that should be all you need anyway (and if it wasn't 1 use only it would be the cheesiest thing ever). On top of that the Sicaran is still a very reliable transport and infantry killer so it can easily fulfill roles other than anti-air duties. If the opponent brings multiple flyers, at least you know you can bring down 1 efficiently, and even if you snapfire at any others, with 6 twin-linked shots and ignoring jink you still have a decent chance at hurting most flyers in the game.