DA 3000 point PotL "Touch of grey..."

[depthcharge12]

So I've been brainstorming my 1st legion list for Athrawes and I's gaming group campaign, and need 3000 points.

 

I already have most of these models (carried over from my 2000 point list), but I need to scale up to fight against a NL terror list, a SoH drop list, and my man Athrawes and his flying circus of the 2nd legion :D I have 260 points to spare but I'm having a tough time figuring out what I want to add to this list.

 

Unfortunately, I'm in a rough spot due to the Dark Angels not having rules yet, but I heard a rumor that they'll have 3 "Wings" available for the next heresy book before their full release. I'm leaning towards a "Dreadwing" list at the moment, which I'm anticipating to be drop pod heavy, though I don't want to fully commit to a full drop pod list just yet.

 

This list has a lot of Ancients in dreadnoughts and as veterans...hence the "touch of grey" :P

 

 

3000 points - Pride of the Legion

 

HQ

 

Praetor (180)

+ Paragon blade, plasma pistol, digi weapons, Iron Halo

 

Master of Signal (95)

+ N/A

 

 

Elites

 

2 Rapier platforms (110)

+ 2 las destroyers

 

Contemptor (185)

+ Plasma cannon

 

 

Troops

 

10 Cataphractii terminators (385)

+ Plasma blaster, reaper autocannon, 1 chain fist, twin lightning claws, 1 lightning claw, 1 power maul, 6 power axes

 

Spartan dedicated transport (335)

+ Flare shield, armored ceramite

 

10 Veterans (295)

+ 2 melta guns, melta bombs, 2 power swords, Sgt w/power axe/AA

+ Tank Hunters

 

8 Support marines (185)

+ 8 volkite calivers

 

 

Fast Attack

 

Anvillus drop pod (100)

 

Anvillus drop pod (100)

 

3 Skyhunter jet bikes (165)

+ Plasma cannon, 3 melta bombs

 

 

Heavy Support

 

Leviathan Siege dreadnought (310)

+ Grav Bombard, Phophex, siege claw, 2 TL volkite calivers

 

Leviathan Siege dreadnought (295)

+ 2 Storm cannons, 2 TL volkite calivers

 

 

Total => 2740 points

 

 

So the veterans go in one Anvillus dreadclaw and the Grav bombard Leviathan goes in the other dreadclaw. The vets probably will drop first 9 times out of ten just so that they can kill any parking lot super heavies or artillery parks. The Grav Levi pops in after the enemy's big bad Death Star is visible so that it can wreck it, or be used as a distraction carnifex in the enemy lines. Everything else is pretty self explanatory :)

 

Where should I spend my 260 points? I feel like a Sicaran or a Deredeo would be sensible, or even a Xiphon for anti air, but I'm on the fence right now.

[Slips]

Deredeo would be the most Versatile choice, yeah. 

[Athrawes]

I think your list has a pretty severe problem.

 

As much as I love the deredeo, Your list is super low on bodies for 3000 points, especially compared to my list and the NL and SoH. With the list you have now, there is basically no way you can win an objective capture game. You have lots of guns and lots of armor, but 28 scoring bodies.

 

The terminators you have to assume wont be going towards an objective you need because for their and their spartans point cost, they would be waste if your not pointing them towards your opponents most concentrated forces.

 

Which means you basically have 18 guys for objective grabbing. Compared to my 55. without more bodies you can probably win a shooting war, but you'll lose the objective game every time. Especially when you consider how mobile all of our lists are. And 8 of them can't shoot if you move them.

 

I think the Deredeo is a good choice (because of all the flyers you will be facing), but with two levis and a spartan, you basically have just 4 super point sinks and this is you entire list, which honestly sounds boring to play against and to play.

 

I'd drop a Leviathan, add the deredeo and have it on the board from turn 1 ready to skyfire, then use the leftover 300+ points to give yourself a beafy troops choice, maybe even an assault squad for added mobility.

[depthcharge12]

I just see the regular troops choices in our games just getting obliterated by turn three anyway, so they haven't had much appeal to me. It's way easier to just deny objectives, plus it's really easy just to kill off marine stat squads.

 

I'm just worried that adding more bodies makes it ripe for the inevitable Fellblade or Primarch that'll be on the field to just murder, and then I'll have zero use out of the troops choice - I'll really have a points sink then :P

 

Maybe switch out a leviathan for a 20 man upgraded despoiler squad.

[Athrawes]

Well, I guess my question is this, what is another Leviathan adding, that a leviathan, a deredeo, a contemptor, a spartan, Jetbikes with meltas, and 2 rapier cannot handle?

 

I undertand the fears of massed infantry being obliterated, but you have to remember, that to do that, your opponent will not be firing at your heavy hitters. And like I said, the game is won and lost with objective capturing, and aside from your jetbikes, your army is pretty slow to try and deny objectives. At best the list your presenting, means you're aiming to make the game a draw instead of trying to win it.

 

Which again, sounds like a really boring way to play the game.

 

Just from your and my games, how many times have you obliterated my army but I've won or drawn thanks to objective capturing?

[depthcharge12]

True, so maybe make an assault squad? My only concern with that is, it's another assault unit that won't be capturing objectives.

 

The other option is a twenty man true grit squad with an apothecary.

[Slips]

True, so maybe make an assault squad? My only concern with that is, it's another assault unit that won't be capturing objectives.

 

The other option is a twenty man true grit squad with an apothecary.

Or, for ~370 points you can take 2 10 man Tac Squads in Rhinos. Give you either 2 cheap-ish distractions that take shots meant for your big nasties OR quick objective cappers.

 

It also gives your opponent 4 more things to kill that are all scoring.

[depthcharge12]

 

 

True, so maybe make an assault squad? My only concern with that is, it's another assault unit that won't be capturing objectives.

 

The other option is a twenty man true grit squad with an apothecary.

Or, for ~370 points you can take 2 10 man Tac Squads in Rhinos. Give you either 2 cheap-ish distractions that take shots meant for your big nasties OR quick objective cappers.

 

It also gives your opponent 4 more things to kill that are all scoring.

Probably a better option then? Would they be better as late game off the board cappers or start on the board?

[Athrawes]

A good fear, but honestly compared to all the killy units out there with power weapons, the last place you want your assault squad is in an assault with anything other than tactical marines. 

 

To me, having a assault squad gives you a good objective grabbing unit with its mobility, and a countercharge unit to back up your heavy hitters if they get bogged down in an assault. Its primary goal should not be assaulting things (ironic no?)

 

Edit: the rhino option is a good one too!

[Slips]

depends on how you think your opponent will play & deploy.

 

If hes playing the reserves game, getting them on early and holding down objectives asap would be a good move.

 

If hes going all in wreckingball style, late game backfield capping might work out better.

 

Remember: the bane of deathstars is being outnumbered. If you have more units than they can kill in 6 turns, theres no way for them to be able to keep you off an objective, really

[depthcharge12]

I think it'll be much easier to take troops once we get actual rules and legion specific models :( but for now it's just hard commuting to anything.

 

So taking out the double storm dread, I now have 555 points to play around with. Suggestions?

[helterskelter]

Take a typhon, add a man to your calivers, up the number of bikes in your jet bikes? The typhon can counteract terror tactics due to ignore cover (grumble) and it's big pie plate/str.10 can wipe a percentage of larger squads/elite units without much fuss. Realistically you're getting 2 shots off before threats appear. Optimistically it could be a threat all game

[depthcharge12]

Yeah but I feel a little dirty playing with a Typhon especially considering I already have a Spartan in my list.

 

Maybe two 10 man despoiler squads both in dreadclaws for late game objective grabbing/denial? :) I know they're a little pricy, but they're really maneuverable and then I don't need to take PotL to lose that VP if my two units are wiped out.

 

10 tactical marines (170)

+ swap bolters for ccw, sgt w/AA/power sword

 

10 tactical marines (170)

+ swap bolters for ccw, sgt w/AA/power sword

 

Dreadclaw (100)

 

Dreadclaw (100)

 

That leaves me with 15 points. Maybe take the Dreadclaw off of the vets (I think there are only 3 FA slots?) and the Leviathan. Give the vets outflank, and then now have 215 points to mess with.

 

Maybe a Xiphon then for added AT and AA?

[Terminus]

I do not understand what all the fuss is about the Grav Bombard (like we need a third variant of grav rules). 3D6 is an average 10 or 11, so it sucks against vehicles, and it only has a 33% chance of wounding most Marines. By the way, that variant is 315 points by my count as you have it.

 

The all-dakka variant is pretty cute, but I hate to give up that awesome siege claw. I think with 12 sundering S7s, and 4 deflagrate S6 shots, this thing will be chewing up stuff at the 24" range, and attracting a LOT of attention. I'd give it phosphex just as a deterrent to infantry trying to get close to it, and I'd be tempted to keep the claw as a deterrent to daemon princes/podding dreadnoughts/big bugs/etc.

 

Anyway, I wouldn't get too attached to putting these guys in Dreadclaws, I am pretty sure they are supposed to be too large. Alan Bligh specifically said so about the Leviathan during its unveiling Q&A.

[helterskelter]

You get 10 guys under a grav bombard you have to roll 10 sets of 2d6 strength tests. Rolling 4 on 2d6. Math hammer it all you like, but it's not something I'd like to be doing. I'd happily walk the chap everywhere it's not gonna take long til he gets to hurt something. Should be in range by turn 2 assuming people actually want to fight opponents

[depthcharge12]

I do not understand what all the fuss is about the Grav Bombard (like we need a third variant of grav rules). 3D6 is an average 10 or 11, so it sucks against vehicles, and it only has a 33% chance of wounding most Marines. By the way, that variant is 315 points by my count as you have it.

 

The all-dakka variant is pretty cute, but I hate to give up that awesome siege claw. I think with 12 sundering S7s, and 4 deflagrate S6 shots, this thing will be chewing up stuff at the 24" range, and attracting a LOT of attention. I'd give it phosphex just as a deterrent to infantry trying to get close to it, and I'd be tempted to keep the claw as a deterrent to daemon princes/podding dreadnoughts/big bugs/etc.

 

Anyway, I wouldn't get too attached to putting these guys in Dreadclaws, I am pretty sure they are supposed to be too large. Alan Bligh specifically said so about the Leviathan during its unveiling Q&A.

 

The grab bombard I have listed is 310 :) (270 base + 20 GB + 15 phosphex + 5 TLVCs)

 

And where did you get a 33% chance of wounding? It's a 2d6 strength test, meaning you average on a 7 with AP2 to boot. It's kinda cool for glancing vehicles, but it's meant to kill anything from castellax on down (s6). The phosphex is added AP2 pie plates.

 

Since infiltrators and drop pod lists rule the meta, wouldn't it be a good choice to have this thing because your enemy will be getting up close, or at least closer than their own deployment zone? This thing is a huge zone blocker as nothing will want to charge the dang thing. Even with one claw, it can reliably lay down hate on primarchs, especially considering the non hammer primarchs can barely scratch the paint on this guy.

 

 

I'm going to rewrite the list and take out the dakka Levi and put in the two dread clawed despoiler squads. I'm taking the dreadclaw off of the Levi, though my gaming group thinks that it was an oversight to not let it have a pod of any sort.