Frater Cornelius Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Hey. I usually play 30k against 40k seeing as most of our community plays 40k. After reviewing some of the lists our SM player play, I have noticed that all of them had at least 30 Grav Cannon with Amp shots per turn, mostly arriving via Drop Pod and being 24" away, just outside of the Augur and disabling all mech elements. Since I play Legions, I have no clue how to counter Grav spam at 2k points. Any idea how mitigate the damage they do, especially to my mobility and assault transports? I am open to any ideas from any Legion's perspective. Cheers ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
v6v77 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I would also like to know this short of the daredo. Ravenwing with grav and 2++ jink was the reason i brought a typhon (no joke). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4203928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebulon Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Would some sort of flyer help perhaps? I don't know, I am clueless on the gaming side of things... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4203931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 The big threat about 40k Grav is not that they strip hull points on a 6. It is that they Immobilize on top of that. This can rob you of your mobility. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4203937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Take allied admech thallax with plasma thingies and some form of interceptor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4203941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Take 1st turn and kill everything on their side of the table by any means necessary? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4203969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 With Auxiliary Drives negating immobilized results on a 4+, meaning that if you succeed you wont take a follow up 2HP loss due Immobilized + Immobilized. And since you can roll that 4+ for every immobilized Result, you can potentially negate the main downside of Grav vs Vehicles. Otherwise, a Deredeo or Mortis Dread to Intercept a pod coming in. Also consider a Phosphex Medusa (which means a Siege Breaker, Sadly). S5 Ap2 Poisoned 3+ Large Blast that causes Difficult/Dangerous Terrain inside a Permanently-in-play marker can really slow down those units or neuter them entirely since if they aren't mobile you can easily stay outside of their threat range. Or, a Primaris Lightning with at least one Phosphex Bomb Cluster in addition to its other gear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4203971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage of Khorne Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 If you want to stick to using a mechanised army it will be allot harder to deal with grav cannons. If you're willing to work outside the constraints of fielding tanks I would just drop a bunch of squads in pods on them and watch the close combat wear them down. If you're set on having a shoot out I would suggest putting a couple dreadnought drop pods in your force as the cloud of smoke and dust they kick up provides shrouded to units targeted anywhere over the doors. This could make whatever armour you're fielding pretty resilient to the grav shots for a turn and then you could just roll over them with medusa or demolishers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4203973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 If you want to stick to using a mechanised army it will be allot harder to deal with grav cannons. If you're willing to work outside the constraints of fielding tanks I would just drop a bunch of squads in pods on them and watch the close combat wear them down. If you're set on having a shoot out I would suggest putting a couple dreadnought drop pods in your force as the cloud of smoke and dust they kick up provides shrouded to units targeted anywhere over the doors. This could make whatever armour you're fielding pretty resilient to the grav shots for a turn and then you could just roll over them with medusa or demolishers. We talking regular Pods? This is even worse, because there is no more Rhinos or whatever protecting you from direct Grav fire and you lose the unit right away. The Dreadnought Pods is a solid idea, I like it. As for S10, I will have a Vindicator camping behind a wall and entering Kool Aid Man style to drop some S10 goodness on the Cents. OH YEEEAAH! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4204036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 just put tanks and knights in there, the'll just glance you at 6' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4204105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 just put tanks and knights in there, the'll just glance you at 6' Do not forget that Cannons get a re-roll on that, as well as re-rolls to hit since you are either Ultramarine or Battle Company. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4204108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 better than dying at 3/2+ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4204119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
norngahl Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Nice idea about the auxilliary drives, never thought of that.. Mass drop pods might be a way to go.. for 35 points you force a whole squad to waste it's grav to destroy the drop pod, while you can shoot and charge out of it if you want to. When he deploys via drop pods, he is forced to leave them after the landing.. throw in some support squads with plasma and eat him round by round. When you wanna go mech.. you should be sure you have a lot of throwaway units so there is no real target he can aim his guns at, making each kill of your units still a kind of waste.. meaning.. speeders, many plasma predators, cheap dreads.. Think about taking a void shield harness on your preator. Grav can't hurt it. Eleminate his anti tank units first so he has nothing to throw at the shield..after he realised, he can't hurt the shield with grav, he will try to shoot it down asap. It's a one trick pony.. so praetor plus cc geared command squad in a dreadclaw for second turn drop (dropping out of los).. you better have his major antitank down at this point. Prepare to loose stuff and try to eat him in cc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4204150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 You need what I call 'interdiction' units- units that can counter deep strikers before they do damage. You have a number of options here. Apothecaries with aug scanners are the easiest option to attach into a unit. The 18" range is limiting, but you can get around it with clever deployment strategy. Your next option are mortis and deredeo dreads, especially the latter with the plasma weapon option. These cost more, but they double as midfield fire support units so the points aren't wasted. Lastly, if you're fine using the now MIA command tank rules for squadrons, predator executioners with interceptor are mean and points efficient. Your remaining options are allies. Admech can grant interceptor easily to their own units, but requires a spendy archmagos to activate. You're looking at ~400 points for an allied detachment here, but it can add some nice mobility to your army ontop of countering the deep strikers. As an example, a magos with bodygards and a siege mortar robit lets you put down an AP2 large blast (re-rolling cover saves) the moment he comes down. Meanwhile the thallax and magos are on their own whittling away at his marines. Not bad. Solar Auxilia are another great option here thanks to their 12" interceptor bubble relic. Put that on a Legate and park him near whatever you like: rapiers, medusas, executioner tanks etc. This can range in cost from 300-500 points, but gives you a solid and well defended firing base. It'll be really hard to survive dropping down anywhere near something like that. The trick with interdictors is that they're multipurpose. Point for point, they won't be as efficient as the units they are designed to counter. However, they have regular battlefield role outside of just using an interceptor ability. In the SA example, that artillery will be lobbing shells every turn. If they have an opportunity to shoot those shells at some deep striking centurions before the even do anything, all the better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4204151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 Nice idea about the auxilliary drives, never thought of that.. Mass drop pods might be a way to go.. for 35 points you force a whole squad to waste it's grav to destroy the drop pod, while you can shoot and charge out of it if you want to. When he deploys via drop pods, he is forced to leave them after the landing.. throw in some support squads with plasma and eat him round by round. When you wanna go mech.. you should be sure you have a lot of throwaway units so there is no real target he can aim his guns at, making each kill of your units still a kind of waste.. meaning.. speeders, many plasma predators, cheap dreads.. Think about taking a void shield harness on your preator. Grav can't hurt it. Eleminate his anti tank units first so he has nothing to throw at the shield..after he realised, he can't hurt the shield with grav, he will try to shoot it down asap. It's a one trick pony.. so praetor plus cc geared command squad in a dreadclaw for second turn drop (dropping out of los).. you better have his major antitank down at this point. Prepare to loose stuff and try to eat him in cc. How come the Void Shield is immune to Grav? Don't they just need to glance it once to remove it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4204216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomMarine Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I just plonk a 10 man Culverin squad with mos as far forward but in cover as I can and wait for them to come at me as u can't ingore that unit 40 bs5 shots with deflagrate and a 18" interceptor bubble and 48" standard range will kill most things. Can't go wrong with a mortis or dorito Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4204237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
norngahl Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Void shield only collapses if you score a penetrating or glancing hit. Grav only removes hullpoints. So- immunity to grav weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4204251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Especially since void shields technically dont have HPs, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4204253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 Hmm, there was an FAQ, but it was 6ed, so RAW, it will be immune to Grav. Interesting. Not honourable in the slightest, but that is what you get for spamming Grav out of your silly Ultrasmurf arse* :D Hm, maybe buy a Void Shield Generator while you are at it? 100pts for three charges. *No offense towards the far more manly Ultramarines of the Heresy Era ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4204272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 To be fair, the ITC rules that void shields are immune to grav. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4204274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 Not bad. So we have redundant transports, counter-assault units in a Raider protected by Void Shields, Medusae/Typhon/Vindicator to double out Cents and aggressively deployed Heavy Squad with Culvs and an Augury Scanner. Sounds like a solid plan, not just against Grav spam. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4204278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebulon Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 My suggestion was dumb then? :( Just figured a weapon that affected things on the ground could easily be taken out by something attacking from above... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4204341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Not bad. So we have redundant transports, counter-assault units in a Raider protected by Void Shields, Medusae/Typhon/Vindicator to double out Cents and aggressively deployed Heavy Squad with Culvs and an Augury Scanner. Sounds like a solid plan, not just against Grav spam. Not just Medusae Medusae with interceptor Just think about the hilarity of it for a moment Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4204533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 My suggestion was dumb then? :( Just figured a weapon that affected things on the ground could easily be taken out by something attacking from above... By no means :D Having flyers or flying assault transports really helps avoiding them. The reason why I did not mention it was not because I did not approve, but because I never play flyers. They do not fit my style as I am not a big fan of reserve rolls. Sorry, should have made this one clear ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315186-countering-40k-grav/#findComment-4204540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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