Need suggestions vs Tau

[DeamonQC]

Hi,

 

We have a local tournament coming up on our league.  Each tournament has a special theme and this one is : No Holds Barred (except for unbound everything is legal).  We have a Tau player at the club who think he's hot:cuss because he lost only once since the rules for the Stormsurge came out and I've been asked to make my best to crush him.

 

I don't know his exact list but it includes a Stormsurge, a Riptide (maybe two) and MissileSide all with interceptor.

 

My standard list is a full battle comagny with grav command squad in pod, melta command squad in pod, assault in pods and everything else in rhino with grav cannons, lascannon and missile.  I usually ad a Clexus Assassin in the mix.

I don't think I can count on my Gravs to deal with him because he will intecept and crush my CS before they can fire.  The GC in rhino will need to move to get in range, losing a turn of shooting and his firepower is probably going to erase some of them and by turn 2 I won't have enough grav to deal with him.

 

I come to the conclusion I need a new list.  I would like to get some suggestions because I really don't know what to do.

I have a huge DA collection (pretty much every models except vindicators, Nephelim and Vengeance).  I also have a few Grey Knight that I could ally (DK, Draigo, Purifier, Termi...) and a calexus assassin.

[sneakybamsen]

Pure ravenwing list? bikes on top of bikes or land speeders with dark shrouds/vengeances. RWSF. I don't play em myself, as I don't like the style, but I can imagine it might be the trick against some seemingly arrogant tau player ;-)

 

If I'm wrong, please do tell, I don't have any tau players in my gaming group =)

[march10k]

Hammer of Caliban with mars pattern land raider and three tri-las preds. Done.

11 lascannons, 5 of them twinlinked, behind the bane of all tau: AV14. Of course, you'll have to bubble wrap the land raider against suicide melta, but scouts are cheap

/edit/ the bubble wrap provides the troops in a CAD, to which you add a TDA character and a couple crusader/redeemer-loads of hammernators. The stormsurge has a dilemma...shoot at the hammer of caliban, or shoot at the AV14 transports...the rest of his army can hurt...the bubble wrap. You should be pouring thundernators into his lap on turn in front of heavy S9AP2 supporting fire.

[sneakybamsen]

Nvm, I misunderstood March10k.

[SnakeChisler]

Hammer of Caliban will last 2 seconds the Surge does have a D gun you know

 

 

The levels of cheap interceptor they can take though are nuts & having it on a stormsurge is mental independent fire!!!!!

 

You could go bike and count on getting 1St turn?

 

My only answer would be a psychic conclave probably iron hands on bike roll for invisibility, take a shroud to turbo into place for no overwatch stack a black Knight squad with interogator Chaplain with mace of redemption + a DA libby on interomancy as well

 

Vindicare would be useful

 

Whirlwinds are annoying to TAU

 

I hate having to use invisibility but I can't see any way you'd survive

[aura_enchanted]

nothing at all counters the tau.

 

lets do the math here:

 

380px2 (stormsurge formation): 2 d large blast plates

580: supremacy armour (5 d plates)

 

so im at 1340 so far and i have 7 d plates, all of which flat out just ignore jink and cover saves. in an 1850 tournament format allowing forgeworld that still leaves 510p unaccounted for which is MORE than enough to take some min squads of fire warriors, and an etheral to cower in a corner and then shoehorn in some riptides for some s8-s9 plates as well. in theory here the tau can slay an entire ravenwing army in a single round of shooting, in theory they can do this to anyone except for eldar and thats only if the eldar player goes first and invisibles all the things!

 

heres how you win against tau, you ban them from forgeworld and lords of war choices via any formation or CAD thats how you win against tau and thats only after youve gotten a way to figure out how your going to win against their other formation nonsense. beyond that you ban them from play altogeather

[Lostrael]

Last time we managed to win against Tau, we hid in a Fortress of Redemption with void shields and the Mechanicum was shooting tons of grav and impulse weapons at them. There was also Asmodai remote controlling the weapons of the Fortress with his Ignore Cover rule. 

Not a glorious tactic, I have to admit. 

 

- So what about dropping command squads with grav weapons into the tau lines.

- Also Something with ignore cover, like the warlord trait of "the Hunt" or psi might help to kill the jinking vehicles.  

 

- Tau have a lot of ignore cover, so I'm not sure if Ravenwing is a good option.

[DeamonQC]

Drop Pod won't work against him.  The Stormsurge can intercept with 4 weapons, then a Riptide will throw an AP2 pie and he something still move, the missilesides are going to wipe the floor with it.

 

The only thing I would pod against him is a small tac/assault squad with flamer to wipe his pathfinders.  He may hesitate to waste the shooting of one of his intercept units on them.

 

I'm considering a gunline with triple void shield to protect them.

[Solrac]

The Stormsurge Str D is only within 10" and it's not a blast. The other gun is a S10 AP2 large blast.

 

The Hammer of Caliban could work but I think a pure Ravenwing army would do better. Lot's of min squads and Grav so that even if a couple of units ignore cover with marker lights/buffmander you still have other stuff moving forward.

 

Typhoon squadrons or a Support Squadron at the back with Typhoons launching Krak missiles into the Stormsurge will make short work of it. T6 and 3+ save is nothing for Krak Missiles. Support squadron would be better as then you have your own Interceptor for any fusion suicide suits.

[twopounder]

librarius conclave. Tau have bull, crap, and none for pyschic defense. Interromancy has a lot of nasty things that effects anything with morale (and all suits do).

[Chaplain Lucifer]

IMHO Psyker heavy is a way to go. Aversion is very nice to make those big suits fire only snap shots... Mind wipe is also very nice.Trepination to finish big suits quickly. Set up a disordered charge with righteous repugnance...

Even Mind Worm is nice against the big suits. :D That will put a stop to his shooting.

[march10k]

Hammer of Caliban will last 2 seconds the Surge does have a D gun you know

 

 

Pardon the facepalm...

 

The Stormsurge Str D is only within 10" and it's not a blast. The other gun is a S10 AP2 large blast.

 

Right...either it has SD inside 10" and a maximum range of 30", or it has a 72" range demolisher plate.  Not both.  Neither is much of a threat to the Hammer of Caliban.  It also has a set of four one-use destroyer missiles...apparently, they're S8 AP1, but if fired via markerlight, they become SD AP1.  That's a bit concerning...perhaps a nice ruin augmented by a darkshroud (and the techmarine!) is in order...

 

 

On the other hand, with 11 S9AP2 shots against a MC with T6, power armor, and 8 wounds...the stormsurge will last  longer than two seconds, but probably not longer than two turns:

 

Firing all eleven lascannons at it yields a statistical average of 8.44 (not accounting for the techmarine boosting the land raider to BS5, so call it 8.5) hits (4 from the 6 non-twinlinked ones, 3.33 from the first rolls from the twinlinked ones, and an additional 1.11 from the rerolls).  Comes out almost exactly to seven AP2 wounds.  Oh, but there's more...monster hunters...we're back to ~8.5 wounds.  One round of shooting, on average, kills the stormsurge, before accounting for cover, fnp, etc.

[shabbadoo]

[EDIT, whole post]:  Some thoughts on NOT altering the list much...

 

Lion's Blade Mini-Full Company ALL in Drop Pods (half w/locator beacons), backed up by a unit of Deathing Hammernators with a cyclone missile launcher. The entire force should be in Reserve.  Gear up the Mini-Full Company squads with melta/plasma/grav (flamers for a couple squads, if the Tau player fields a decent amount of Infantry; otherwise leave them out) to unleash death on the Turn 1 Alpha Strike and Turn 2 Beta Strike. Use the initial locator beacon-equipped Drop Pods to provide cover for your squads and block the Tau's lines of fire. Turn 2 , when more stuff shows up, use extant locator beacons to drop in even more accurately with the second wave of Drop Pods and Deathwing Hammernators.  The goal is to hit that Tau on a flank, using the Drop Pods as cover from as many of the the Stormsurge and Ripdtides as possible. Land the pods and then disembark into terrain if you can so as to get cover saves versus any AP 3 or better shooting.  You may wish to forget the terminators and instead Deepstrike in a Ravenwing Support Squadron (typhoon+mulit-meltas & Darkshroud version) which, if it is not fired upon, will do bad things, but if it is fired upon it can simply Jink and get a 2++ cover save (and still fire snap shots).  Use the Drop Pods, and other Tau unis, to gain cover versus any of the Interceptor units. You can also hit the Tau center, using the Drop Pods to form walls ot either side, with your units in the middle, to help with cover/block LOS. Going first is actually a good idea, if you have the choice, due to being able to act twice before the Stormsurge can implement its Stabilizing Anchors (which allow it to fire all weapon systems twice the turn turn after the Stabilizing Anchors are activated) and so be able to really hit any second Reserves wave hard with Interceptor fire.

 

You could also run Flyers. Those Tau units may have Interceptor (i.e. they have an Early Warming Override as one of their two systems), but they only have Skyfire if they also take a Velocity Tracker, so they will only hit Flyers on 6's without one.

 

And you need to remember that any weapon which they fire using Interceptor on your turn can NOT fire in the following Tau turn.  It is a common mistake to forget that. A Stormsurge won't likely have the Skyfire ability, seeing as most of its shots are Str 5 AP 5, and it would be a waste to take it for only to apply it to its primary weapon.

Also,  the Stormsurge's gun that has Str D is only Str D out to 10" range, so just stay outside of pistol range.  you may wnt to get within thatrange though, as it is only two shots at BS 3 and it won't get marker light benefits while using Interceptor. You may even want to tempt it to move, because doing so will cut its potential fire capability in half.  Many Stormsurge's won't be armed with that gun, and thanstier gun is a lrge balst, meaning it will scatter 2/3 of the time.  if you droip in cleo to the Tau, it may even scatter onto the Tau.  A Stormsurge using Interceptor before using its Stabilizing Anchors can shoot 4d6 Str 5 AP 5 shots (out to 48", but needing LOS), and 4 more twin-linked out to 24" (no LOS needed), 4 more twin-linked out to 18", and a single Str 10 AP 2 large blast (using the "good' gun).  If that is all it is likley to fire before you get to fire, and any of those weapons can NOT use marker lights or then fire in the next Tau turn before you are able to get into close combat with the Tau force, that couldatually bea good thing.  Besides, if those Interceptor units use all of their potential on just killing your Command Squad (s), then exactly what is the problem anyways?  Do you expect not to lose any models for some reason? Is the entirety of the rest of your force unable to do anything, like shoot the bejeezus out of the Tau after landing and then be in a position to assault them immediately?  That second wave of units will be vying for target priority with units already on the gorund, so Interceptor will be less of a concern on Turn 2; especially if the initial wave units went first and so are now likely locked up with Tau units in close combat before the Tau can fire again, or have even taken down one or more of the units with Interceptor.  Tau should be nasty to deal with, as anyarmy should be, and you should expect some losses because that is *normal*.  There is no EASY button, nor should there be.

 

And it is a tournament, so people will be expecting everyone to bring the most "stupid good" stuff they have access to.  the culexus is a nice touch.  That alone could tarpit any of the big Tau mechs for the entire game, if it gets into close combat with one of them.

[DeamonQC]

Thanks for the advice.  The tournament is this sunday and I'm going to fight some pretty mean lists.  Here's what I finally settled for :

 

CAD

Int Chaplain on bike with the mace

6 men Ravenwing command squad with Apoc

Mortis Pattern contemptor dread with kheres and ML

5 Tactical with GC in rhino

5 Tactical with meltagun in rhino

Drop Pod

3 Ravenwing attack squadron (2 gravgun + 1 combigrav)

3 Ravenwing attack squadron (2 gravgun + 1 combigrav)

Void Shield Generator with 3 shields

 

 

Calexus assassin

 

DA Librarian conclave

Ezekiel

Libby lvl2 on bike with conversion field

Libby lvl2 on bike with conversion field

 

 

Tactics : Libbys and Int Chap goes with the command squad.  Ezekiel joins one of the tac squad (most likely the one with meltagun).  The assassin goes in the drop pod.  He's my insurance policies vs invisibility deathstar.  Against the Tau, I plan to assault his broadsides to lock them for a couple of turns.  Psychic power will change based on my opponent but I'm going to fish for Aversion against the tau and hopefully nerf his stormsurge and his riptide/broadside.

 

The void shield generator will protect my dreadnough and my GC tac squad.  It should also seriously reduce his firepower in the event he gets first turn.

 

Overall, I think it's a counter meta list.  I'll struggle against a balanced list but it should ruin the day of those who are going to bring their big toys.

[TheAvengingKnee]

Psychers and Ravewing will help a lot, drop pods will be pretty much the worst option. grav will ruin his day so some grav bikers wont hurt. if you can get some D weapons that may not hurt, a warhound could really do some damage to that stormsurge, dual turbolaser destructors 4 large blasts and if any of them roll a 6 the stormsurge is done, downside is they are not cheap, though if you want a little bit cheaper one, the armorcast ones(the model from before Forgeworld made them(1989)) can be way cheaper. 

 

https://rustymagos.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/dscf3246-e1413553427404.jpg to see what they look like

[march10k]

Interesting how the new tau codex changes things...for example, ravenwing is horribly vulnerable to the optimized stealth cadre...