Blood angels - poor or underestimated

[Quixus]

The point is that the Baal Strike Force is the *typical* (it says that specifically) strike force sent out. Typical means it would be the most common, meaning that troops (Tactical Marines being the standard) would outnumber the assault marines.

Sure, in a war they will have more tactical squads than assault squads, but that does not mean that it is the case in every little 4' x 6' portion of that war.

I totally get that it makes sense fluff wise for the chapter as a whole, but I don't like that the rules limit options for the game, which apart from Apocalypse only features a very small part of the chapter.

 

I have no doubt that the Blood Angels should have a full Assault Marine strike force.

It's not so much about having a full assault force, but the flexibility of not having tacticals (or scouts) in a battle-forged army.As others have already mentioned, that was possible in the 2nd through 5th edition codices.

 

However, people on here keep comparing the Blood Angel detachments to the Flesh Tearer detachment. That is faulty because the Blood Angels are the far more level headed of the two, and tend to fight far more pragmatically than the Flesh Tearers. Of course the Flesh Tearers have complete assault formations, they are far crazier and far bloodier than the Blood Angels.

The only detachment I know off that is composed entirely of jump infantry is the Angle's Wrath Intervention Force and is intended for the Blood Angels (if it is at all geared to a specific chapter)

 

The flavor of the Blood Angels are they  are codex that favor mobility, have a blood lust, and go crazy once in a while. Sometimes the blood lust gets to them and they charge with their devastators, or they abandon good positions in favor of close combat. *But they are still codex*. They are still pragmatic. The Flesh Tearers ARE NOT.

Yet neither even get razorbacks for their assault squads, that even the "codex slaves" are allowed to use. But we get meltaguns so we should be happy? Also BA don't go crazy once in a while anymore according to the rules. They either are already crazy (DC) or they are just as controllable as other astartes.

[Frater Antodeniel]

About the Idea of a Jump Pack Assault oriented Blood Angels Chapter, i just have find something that could bring everyone to an agreement. All is in the Codex.

 

First => We can consider the Blood Angels as Codex Astartes compliant chapter, Ok. So, this way they have more tactical than assault dedicated troops, Ok.

 

Second => Death Company description clearly states that the astartes that join the DC often bear their previous wargear embelished with the DC symbol, so i they were Tactical, they look like tactical....etc., Ok.

 

Third => We can equip DC marine like tactical marine WITH jump pack....

 

In the end, when i clearly look at this, it appears that Blood Angels Tactical Marines use Jump Pack....So, the Blood Angels are an Assault-Oriented chapter while still being Codex compliant. =) (I would need to pick a look at the codex later to confirm my memory, but with your posts, that was the first thing that came to my mind.)

 

And if you want to see how far the Flesh Tearers Battle Doctrine can be bloody, check the Shield Of Baal Errata i just published....

[Arkangilos]

You are stretching. A lot. No where does it ever say our tacticas are equipped with assault packs, which deviates from the codex.

[LutherMax]

In what way do DC look tactical? They look very assault-y to me! Yes you can give them bolters, but they then usually don't have jump packs...

[Quixus]

Yeah, that is another thing I never understood about the oh so tactically superior Codex Astartes. Why didn't one of the greatest military minds come up with the idea to make mobile shooty units i.e. equip marines with jump packs, bolt guns and, if not heavy weapons, special weapons. There is a point to be made about the Imperium not having the technology to build jet packs, but simply swapping out equipment shouldn't be impossible.

 

It makes even less sense that one of the few units that can actually take JPs and bolt guns are frothing madmen who probably won't be interested in this tactical option.

 

I agree though that Frater Antodeniel's conclusion that tactical marines can wear jump packs has no basis in fluff or rules.

 

The weird thing is that some "unfluffy" combinations can be done as battle-forged armies and others can't. E.g.2 minimum scout units, Astorath and 3/4 maximized DC units can be done as CAD/BSF but not Librarian, Priest, 2 ASM squads and a baal predator (IIRC a popular suggestion for a BA starting army in 5th edition).

[Arkangilos]

Heavy weapons are hard to put onto guys with jump packs because they wear their ammo on their back, and that would be pretty much impossible with the jump pack. 

 

As for the bolters, that actually is a good question. Maybe it's because they don't really need it. I mean after all, they do deploy from a drop pod practically where ever they want. But that would be a cool concept.

[LutherMax]

Special weapons are taken by jump pack troops - our meltacide squads don't have to arrive via pod ;)

[Frater Cornelius]

BA are not poor. They are fine, even if a little bland. Most of the Decurion-era books are simply over the top.

[Spagunk]

Play to your objectives! I seem to have good success with this as there are too many neigh-invulnerable units which we won't be able to compete with.

[Charlo]

Remember that thread a while back talking about how some people think we're OP with our extra initiative?

 

Swings and roundabouts. If anything I say, while a decurion is nice, we can still have competitive builds without being stuck into a battle company style army. Which are pretty bland.