Corswain Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Fluff does not equal rules, friend. But we can at least hope it influences them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4213605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 In the Case of FW, rules are very much influenced by Fluff. Just look at the Current Primarchs. They either represent them to a tee or pretty damn close enough. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4213610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I actually enjoy the "less popular" ones more from FW. The ones where they basically had nothing to go on. Perturabo, Alpharius, Dorn to a lesser extent. The less Black Library the better when it comes to rules it would seem. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4213613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 So while we're on the topic and without creating a new thread, which characters does everyone think we'll see for the DA? I see Corswain as being almost an auto include who will definitely be a CC beast but do you think they'll actually include Luther? I'd certainly like to see it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4214954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 Apparently in this book I read they ain't introducing characters yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4214962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grim Badger Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I hope that, as per the fluff, he can defeat Kurze but only with a wound or two remaining. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4214969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I hope that, as per the fluff, he can defeat Kurze but only with a wound or two remaining. Yea Curze definitely isn't the best option to take on an opposing primarch, any form of infantry he'll absolutely mulch though. I believe the Lion will perform better against an equal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4214974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 So while we're on the topic and without creating a new thread, which characters does everyone think we'll see for the DA? I see Corswain as being almost an auto include who will definitely be a CC beast but do you think they'll actually include Luther? I'd certainly like to see it. Possibly Astelan, Holguin, Redloss, or Luther. Or Alanpharius will create a super special awesome character we've never heard before of, and we'll all want to include him in our list :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4215014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Zahariel? Maybe Lord Cypher?! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4215022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin the wraithlord Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 My gut feeling is that points wise he will be the most expensive primarch for the reasons stated above. He is a master duelist and strategist. I could see him get a rule that he can not join a unit due to his lone wolf nature. No. Horus will always be the most expensive and best CC primarch. I do not think that will change. His role in the HH is too iconic to allow another Primarch steal the spotlight. I think the only one able to beat him will be the Emperor, should he ever get rules. I actually think the Angel will be 550 atleast, its stated multiple times in lore that he is akin if not more powerful than Horus, remember they will release rules for a "demon" horus who will be on par with empy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4215060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimm Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 For me I see the lion as upper tier overall, I don't think he's going to be near sang or horus in outright combat potential but I bet he will have some funky rules in challenges making him harder to hit and he will offer good army wide buffs. Bit like smurf commander mk2 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4215121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I think rules similar to Guilliman make sense. I always imagined the two of them being quite similar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4215138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 A step above Curze, a step below Angron? Somewhere on Fulgrim's level, I would imagine. Same for Russ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4215188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Centurion Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Who thinks Raldoron's getting a model? What about Azkaellon? Who else do you want to see get models? Amit? And what special units do you think we'll see? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4215295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volth Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Johnson should have two rules: "Seizer of opportunities" At any point of the game, the player can choose to seperate Lion El'Johnson and all Elite choices from the rest of the army. From this point on the player wins the game when all remaining forces of the Dark Angels are slain. If the player does not manage to kill all models of his remaining army by the end of the game he has lost. "Cowardice" Once the opponent player looks away, the Dark Angels player may smash his fist on the table. All broken models are immediately removed as causalties. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4215328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Who thinks Raldoron's getting a model? What about Azkaellon? Who else do you want to see get models? Amit? And what special units do you think we'll see? Well they would look rather odd in First Legion heraldry, wouldn't they? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4215334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Johnson should have two rules: "Seizer of opportunities" At any point of the game, the player can choose to seperate Lion El'Johnson and all Elite choices from the rest of the army. From this point on the player wins the game when all remaining forces of the Dark Angels are slain. If the player does not manage to kill all models of his remaining army by the end of the game he has lost. "Cowardice" Once the opponent player looks away, the Dark Angels player may smash his fist on the table. All broken models are immediately removed as causalties. I r8 8/8 m8. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4215378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Yea Curze definitely isn't the best option to take on an opposing primarch, any form of infantry he'll absolutely mulch though. I believe the Lion will perform better against an equal. Really? I've heard Curze does very well against other primarchs. I'm not much of a tabletop player though I hope that, as per the fluff, he can defeat Kurze but only with a wound or two remaining. What do you mean? How could the rules ensure that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4216390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 They can't ensure that, and any Primarch can defeat another under the right circumstances, barring perhaps Horus, Sanguinius, and Angron. But Angron on the tabletop pales in comparison to Angron in the books, unfortunately. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4216397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Yeah...I have heard Angron is pretty weak on TT. Could be a case of power creep. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4216428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Hes not weak. Hes just Squishy. Since hes more or less the only Primarch who can potentially kill a Warhound Titan, on his own, in a Single Combat Phase. (although it is very unlikely) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4216430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I'm pretty sure Perturabo with Forgebreaker could as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4216434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Making Angron squishy seems like a rather odd way of "balancing" him. Is Perturabo the 2nd best primarch on TT now? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4216452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Its not that hes one of the best since Ferrus, Vulkan, Horus and Guilliman all have S10 Hits much like Perturabo with Forgebreaker which is why they're the best suited to Kneecapping Titans alongside Angron. I dont think the Lion will be very much like that. I see him as a More Stalwart version of Fulgrim, if that means anything to y'all. Also comparing Primarchs and rating them Best to worst is, at most, subjective with some objectivity in there. Main reason being, the most common measure of their Prowess is in Primarch v Primarch Fights without considering any extraneous circumstances such as Curze and Corax having Hit & Run and preferring to Mulch Infantry vs getting locked in combat for the whole game vs another Primarch, Angron who needs to be fed Chaff units to acquire 10 base attacks, Guilliman who only becomes better as a fight drags out (same with Horus), Ferrus/Vulkan/Mortarion who are the hardest ones to kill, possibly (especially Vulkan) and Dorn whose S8 ID attacks are better suited to gutting a (G)MCs than a Primarch, etc. Not to mention, with the exception of Angron to an extent, their Armywide Buffs/benefits. Will the Lion rate? Yeah most likely. He's still a Primarch. What will he Specialize in? ...we don't really know, do we? Hes a Knight who likes to keep secrets and will possibly use any means necessary to win? Will he be a better Infantry Mulcher than Angron? Doubt it. Better Commander than Guilliman/Horus/Dorn/etc.? Maybe. They were made to lead after all. Will he be a better duelist than Fulgrim? Doubt it. But he wont be far behind. I see him as a Strong ~430+ Point Duelist Primarch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4216469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Its not that hes one of the best since Ferrus, Vulkan, Horus and Guilliman all have S10 Hits much like Perturabo with Forgebreaker which is why they're the best suited to Kneecapping Titans alongside Angron. A bit odd that Guilliman has S10 hits like Vulkan and Ferrus...what's FW's rationalisation of this? Will he be a better duelist than Fulgrim? Doubt it. But he wont be far behind. Why do you doubt it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315503-where-do-you-think-the-lion-will-rank-table-top-wise/page/3/#findComment-4216495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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