Lunar Centurion Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Seeing as the Lion is getting a thread for this, why not the Angel as well? Where do you guys think Sanguinius will be ranked? He's been said to be a close combat monster, and has beaten post-apothesis Angron, one of the better fighters, but could he beat Horus, Guilliman, Russ or Perturabo? They're some of the better Primarchs, so I'd like to know where you guys think he's rank. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I said on the other thread, he'll be hard to do, might even be the hardest. There's a lot of expectation for him. High weapon skill, super maneuverable, probably fast but maybe not as strong or tough as some. I'd like to see a rule around him being "the angel". All the Primarchs have an aura but I think it would be strongest in him. Maybe something with the black rage, effectiveness drops as he loses troops? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Centurion Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 Yeah, and he'd probably have hatred (Khorne) post-Signus, because of Ka'Bandha Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Agreed. Looking forward to that being a little better written by FW. Oh and Ka'Bandha/Sanguinius duel diorama please FW! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I'd put sanguinius with I8 for a start but with 6's for strength and toughness. Puts him in about the right place I'd think. He'd get decent hammer of wrath and maybe a bonus to movement with his wings. Not zoom. Sanguinius would never crash Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Centurion Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 He'd have his Inferno Pistol, of course, but buffed up waaaaay past normal. Ignores Armored Ceramite? Hehehe just think.... and they should do a Ferrus-Fulgrim type thing. With Ka'Bandha though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I'd like to see him wih the spear. Its just cool. Makes combat from the air a little easier too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Centurion Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 I'd like to see him wih the spear. Its just cool. Makes combat from the air a little easier too. Yeah, but the sword is his iconic weapon. Or maybe a choice between the weapons? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 2 options is always better. The sword is iconic but Im starting to feel the need for some variety. Spear for Sanguinius, sword and shield for The Lion, staff for Magnus, Tulwar or maybe a Lance for The Khan (depends if he's on foot or bike or rhino), I'd say axe for Russ but thats possibly worse than taking the sword off Sanguinius. Edit: A lot of good Angelic imagery to draw on with the spear too. Always fit better in my mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkApostle7 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Yep Ka'Bandha vs sangy, its begging to be done, could be the biggest diorama that FW's ever done, on the walls of the imperial palace! i need one FW, that and Argel Tal and ill be happy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Why would Sanguinius have Black Rage? Blood Angels' Black Rage is triggered by visions of Sang's death...and the BA flip out. Sanguinius himself has Black Rage? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Centurion Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 Good point... but he would probably have something similar, because he kinda flipped when his legionnaires were getting mowed down in Fear To Tread, so that's Black Rage-esque Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Yeah, without de-railing too mch, I always thought thats what it was. Legion weren't affected till his death bit it was there, a flaw in the geneseed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Wasn't the flaw found in the gene-seed, "The red thirst"? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Yeah but that doesnt really fit the fainting incident for me. Other than "he fainted", black rage is my only explanation. Whatever we call it, i think a rule reflecting it would be cool. Cant be too easy though, maybe kicks in at 75% casualties. Not inevitable defeat but certainly on the way. Edit: on reflection, "he got so angry he fainted" is pretty ridiculous but as I said, its all I got. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 In the old Index Astartes, Sanguinius went into a red frenzy when his tribe was threatened, and he slaughtered all of the mutants. Basically have a sort of reverse black rage. The more of his son's die, the crazier he gets. Signus happened the way it did because of warp magic amplifying everything, so him fainting could have been a result of that. I'd give him the option for the sword and the spear. I think it would be sweet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 First up definitions. Black Rage: Psychological state in which Blood Angels relive the final moments of their father aboard the Vengeful Spirit during the battle of terra. Those suffering in it's grip are viewing events and enemies long dead and acting with the same level of betrayal and pain-induced rage he felt. Red Thirst: A genetic flaw plaguing the IX legion from it's foundation wherein the sufferer has a compulsive desire to drink blood that eventually terminates with incurable feral madness. While still alive, Sanguinius personally delivered the execution of those unfortunate enough to succumb. Now as far as Sanguinius on the table, I would certainly hope that he could best Guilliman and some of the other more tactically-minded Primarchs. I imagine he will be quite swift but obviously not as tough as Ferrus, Vulkan, or Mortarion, but he still killed Ka'Banda with two broken legs... Just saying. I imagine him and the Lion will be in a very similar range of prowess with Sanguinius being slightly more assault oriented and having the mobility benefit granted by his wings, but slightly lacking in defense. As for the rule about losing troops harming his stats, that actually makes a lot of sense given that on Signus he was knocked unconscious by the psychic shock of loosing thousands of his sons in a single instant. It has been said that of all the Primarchs, Sanguinius is the closest and most beloved by his sons. I think this goes beyond demeanor and his own humble nature and actually indicates a psychic connection with those who share his geneseed, this is why their deaths hurt him and why his death permanently changes the XI legion's genetic stability and creates the condition known as 'The Black Rage'. Regardless, he'll probably be a tough customer. Kill vehicles effectively with his pistol (albeit at close range) and mow infantry and MC's like wheat to the scythe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I'm honestly expecting Sanguinius to be possibly the most expensive loyalist Primarch, bet he'll be 490+. Equivalent or close to equivalent to Horus (until Horus goes to Molech I guess). Close combat beast, wings, cool army buffs, AND psychic powers? Maybe not the toughest, but ML2/3 can make up for that pretty easily depending on what disciplines he has access to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Im not up on blood angels heresy fluff. But is there anything that says he actively used psychic powers? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Im not up on blood angels heresy fluff. But is there anything that says he actively used psychic powers? I think it's just mentioned that he's a psyker. Maybe it's in The First Heretic, but it's supposedly part of the reason he supported the Librarius at Nikaea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I don't he's ever mentioned to be a psyker, just a proponent of the Librarius alongside the Khan and Magnus. Only thing is probably the strong psychic bond with his sons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimm Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 He should be a good as horus and Angon in combat. Horus says in betrayer that only Angon had a chance vs Sanguinius and he wouldn't want to fight him. Overall power he will be really good and almost certainly 500pts like horus. If they stick to fluff he's meant to be an expert swordsman who can fly and has exceptional precognitive psykic powers, he he looses the cool calm act he's actually a raging lunatic although always calculated Certainly see him as a jp unit with crazy ini, ws and attacks. Past that it's anyone's guess but hope he gets some fun rules and praying he's a lvl 2 psyker but think he will be to good so bit it's left out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I don't he's ever mentioned to be a psyker, just a proponent of the Librarius alongside the Khan and Magnus. Only thing is probably the strong psychic bond with his sons. Could be! Or he represses it like Lorgar did, like how he often seems ashamed of his wings. His face is also really commonly described as shifting or hard to look at in a way that's similar to the Emperor's, and Magnus's face is described the same way. To me that kind of indicates he has some kind of psyker ability, but again maybe not since he's never been described as manifesting many powers other than maybe some precog. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimm Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I don't he's ever mentioned to be a psyker, just a proponent of the Librarius alongside the Khan and Magnus. Only thing is probably the strong psychic bond with his sons. Every primarch bar Fulgrim had physic abilities but most either didn't utilise them perfect them for many reasons. Magnus, lorgar, sang and curze were really the only ones to utilise them properly although erratically in curzes emo way Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Sanguinius has some precognitive power, he gets instincts about things that are coming. He turns up occasionally to help Blood Angels who otherwise would have been in trouble or things like that. I don't think he's a full on psyker. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/#findComment-4212537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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