Augustus Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Just the simple fact that Horus himself says, "It should have been Sanguinius" is enough of a indicator what his status amongst the rest of the Primarchs should be. I know that this could refer to a combination of leadership and prowess, but still, Sanguinius is up there. ... I dunno. This forum's Wade Garret said it best when he said (IIRC and paraphrase) A death bed confession by a Warp addled Horus isn't much of a measuring stick. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Sanguinius imo, shouldn't necessarily be a super strong combat Primarch, though definitely one of the better ones. He should be all about movement. ??? The guy has always been close combat monster in the fluff. Angron, Horus, Sanguinius...these three should be incredible in CC...which is NOT to say they can't be beaten by other primarchs. I would simply bet on any of these three against a primarch outside of these three. Magnus and post-ascension Lorgar would be exceptions as they're powerful psykers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Just the simple fact that Horus himself says, "It should have been Sanguinius" is enough of a indicator what his status amongst the rest of the Primarchs should be. I know that this could refer to a combination of leadership and prowess, but still, Sanguinius is up there. ... I dunno. This forum's Wade Garret said it best when he said (IIRC and paraphrase) A death bed confession by a Warp addled Horus isn't much of a measuring stick. First off, he never said it on his death bed, he confessed it to Sanguinius shortly after being crowned Warmaster at Ullanor. Second, the host of other examples provided in this thread attest to the prowess of Sanguinius, even if the words of a candid and newley-minted Warmaster Horus do not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 @Rakta: You mean in the duel that Russ had in order to try and fail to teach Angron a lesson. Yea, thats a good measure of Russ's abilities *sarcasm* WLK Yes...because getting the crap beaten out of him in front of his men somehow helped Angron to learn the lesson *sarcasm* Angron thought he didn't need his men because he had Russ crawling away from him. Had Russ humbled Angron in their duel AND pointed out that Angron's men were nowhere near to aid him, Russ would've made his point with more force...and Angron would've had nothing to fall back on. Angron "calling out Russ" is easy to dismiss because he is so, so broken. it's like seeing someone from the Westboro Baptist Church attempting to call somebody out. Sure, they have an opinion. However, that opinion is so far from anything resembling logic its pretty easy to dismiss. The lesson seems lost on you as well. Its not that ANgron thought he did or didnt need him men. He is broken. His men are not a factor in his warfare. Thats why people like Kharne are calling the shots in so many ways. Angron may say kill them all, but doesnt perform the role a primarch should. He is just as happy leaving his men in his dust than fighting alongside them. And back to Space Wolves bashing again, we get it Space Wolves are the least popular legion.... B1soul, stay on topic please!! Sanguinius should be a top tier Primarch killer, maybe not the strongest, but certainy one of the quickest initiative wise. Maybe some sort of thunderous strike rule vs monstrous creatures? Meh, it's b1soul. if he doesnt post something negative about the Wolves once every few hours he turns into a pumpkin. Horus was by that point a god fuelled by the powers of chaos, and Sanguinius had been fighting for days without rest on Terra. Hardly a fair contest, and that's coming from a massive Horus fan who isn't fond of Sanguinius in the slightest. I don't think he should be as good a Primarch v Primarch fighter as Horus is, but I'd expect him to be very close pre-Chaos. The Talon of Horus pretty much makes Horus the ultimate Primarch v Primarch brawler, as it should be - he is the most dangerous Primarch, see the introduction to Conquest. Post-Chaos, nobody comes close to Horus except the big E. a fair fight?If you're fighting a fair fight you've already committed mistakes. that said, Horus is the best and brightest. Thats no slight on the rest of the lot, but they aint Horus. He's the Emperor's favored for a reason. I want Sanguinius to be a beast. He should make just about every opponent question their life choices. But not Horus. I think that top group should be pretty tight. Always seen Horus as the first amongst equals, not superior (probably natural for a DA player, right? ). Personally wouldn't have included Angron in the top 5. Unless you're talking just combat. Guillimans rounds out my top 5. I was talking just hand to hand combat.the thing is about Horus, is that he is not just a Primarch raised above his genetic brothers. He is the Brightest Star. He is the favored creation of a being thats lived for untold amount of years and has a large selection of monsters to choose from. Horus was the best of the Primarchs. He had all the combined skills required to follow a being like the Emperor in command. I think his fall was poorly handed by the Black Library, and felt very rushed. I doubt any single primarch could have dropped Horus by skill alone. WLK Your point about Horus made me chuckle because it's just so damn true. It's like professional athletes. They are all amazing. But sometimes there is just that one guy that takes the cake. Horus definitely had 'first born' syndrome. He's the hands down most qualified and experienced, but when his younger brothers turn out to be successful it drives him to prove himself more. He loves his brothers, but he's going to make sure he stays Primus inter pares in the Emperor's eyes. I can see why his fall, if it had been better explained, made perfect sense. The emperor didn't even choose another Primarch to run the Imperium. He made Horus a general and let bureaucrats and mortals into the rulers. WLK sometimes it's like you can read my mind it's a dark and scary place. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Just the simple fact that Horus himself says, "It should have been Sanguinius" is enough of a indicator what his status amongst the rest of the Primarchs should be. I know that this could refer to a combination of leadership and prowess, but still, Sanguinius is up there. ... I dunno. This forum's Wade Garret said it best when he said (IIRC and paraphrase) A death bed confession by a Warp addled Horus isn't much of a measuring stick. First off, he never said it on his death bed, he confessed it to Sanguinius shortly after being crowned Warmaster at Ullanor. Second, the host of other examples provided in this thread attest to the prowess of Sanguinius, even if the words of a candid and newley-minted Warmaster Horus do not. He didn't? First: Because in False Gods "Horus appeared to be momentarily perturbed by her question, but said, ‘Sanguinius. It should have been him. He has the vision and strength to carry us to victory, and the wisdom to rule once that victory is won." Second: I wasn't disputing the later examples. I was disputing your example. You have clarified it. It's a discussion. Not an attack. Your post comes off hyperdenfensive. If I am mistaken (quite possible,) I'm too sensative I apologize. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I dont really put much stock in the "should have been the Warmaster" argument. I think Guilliman in Unremembered Empire says it was a two horse race between Horus and the Lion, and in Vengeful Spirit (from memory, been a while since I've read it) Horus says Ferrus should have been Warmaster. It's kinda becoming a bit overused in an attempt to keep everyone happy. Edit: This is getting kinda off-topic. I apologise! And I'm pretty sure everyone has said Sanguinius is going to be awesome. The debate seems to be "how awesome?" The answer is very! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Conquest page 9. Best and most simple summary of why Horus was Warmaster. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Conquest page 9. Best and most simple summary of why Horus was Warmaster. :) Don't leave me hanging. What's it say?! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 @Rakta: You mean in the duel that Russ had in order to try and fail to teach Angron a lesson. Yea, thats a good measure of Russ's abilities *sarcasm* WLK Yes...because getting the crap beaten out of him in front of his men somehow helped Angron to learn the lesson *sarcasm*Angron thought he didn't need his men because he had Russ crawling away from him. Had Russ humbled Angron in their duel AND pointed out that Angron's men were nowhere near to aid him, Russ would've made his point with more force...and Angron would've had nothing to fall back on. Angron "calling out Russ" is easy to dismiss because he is so, so broken. it's like seeing someone from the Westboro Baptist Church attempting to call somebody out. Sure, they have an opinion. However, that opinion is so far from anything resembling logic its pretty easy to dismiss. The lesson seems lost on you as well. Its not that ANgron thought he did or didnt need him men. He is broken. His men are not a factor in his warfare. Thats why people like Kharne are calling the shots in so many ways. Angron may say kill them all, but doesnt perform the role a primarch should. He is just as happy leaving his men in his dust than fighting alongside them. Nothing you've said shows that Russ let Angron maul him in front of a hundred watching Wolves. In fact...jugding by the scene, when Angron insults the Emperor in front of Russ...the Lord of Winter and War flips out and charges him. This is similar to when the DA champion draws 1st blood against Ragnar...Ragnar flips out. Unfortunately for Russ, he flips out against Angron, whose whole schtick is being nigh-unstoppable in 1 on 1 gladiatorial combat. ...so yes, I would say the actual duel between Angron and an enraged Russ is a great measure of their respective fighting abilities. Does it mean Russ could never beat Angron...no, but neither does it mean that Russ fought half-heartedly or with the intention of getting trounced in front of his men. You would have to be incredibly stupid or suicidal to start a fight against the likes of Angron with the intention of holding back. Russ showed up to teach a lesson and withdrew his legion in the end...but when he charged Angron, he was genuinely enraged. Getting beaten down in front of his men wasn't part of his plan. Why would it be? It only provided Angron with an excuse to claim victory instead of reflecting upon his legion's madness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimm Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 @Rakta: You mean in the duel that Russ had in order to try and fail to teach Angron a lesson. Yea, thats a good measure of Russ's abilities *sarcasm* WLK Yes...because getting the crap beaten out of him in front of his men somehow helped Angron to learn the lesson *sarcasm*Angron thought he didn't need his men because he had Russ crawling away from him. Had Russ humbled Angron in their duel AND pointed out that Angron's men were nowhere near to aid him, Russ would've made his point with more force...and Angron would've had nothing to fall back on. Angron "calling out Russ" is easy to dismiss because he is so, so broken. it's like seeing someone from the Westboro Baptist Church attempting to call somebody out. Sure, they have an opinion. However, that opinion is so far from anything resembling logic its pretty easy to dismiss. The lesson seems lost on you as well. Its not that ANgron thought he did or didnt need him men. He is broken. His men are not a factor in his warfare. Thats why people like Kharne are calling the shots in so many ways. Angron may say kill them all, but doesnt perform the role a primarch should. He is just as happy leaving his men in his dust than fighting alongside them. Nothing you've said shows that Russ let Angron maul him in front of a hundred watching Wolves. In fact...jugding by the scene, when Angron insults the Emperor in front of Russ...the Lord of Winter and War flips out and charges him. This is similar to when the DA champion draws 1st blood against Ragnar...Ragnar flips out. Unfortunately for Russ, he flips out against Angron, whose whole schtick is being nigh-unstoppable in 1 on 1 gladiatorial combat. ...so yes, I would say the actual duel between Angron and an enraged Russ is a great measure of their respective fighting abilities. Does it mean Russ could never beat Angron...no, but neither does it mean that Russ fought half-heartedly or with the intention of getting trounced in front of his men. You would have to be incredibly stupid or suicidal to start a fight against the likes of Angron with the intention of holding back. Russ showed up to teach a lesson and withdrew his legion in the end...but when he charged Angron, he was genuinely enraged. Getting beaten down in front of his men wasn't part of his plan. Why would it be? It only provided Angron with an excuse to claim victory instead of reflecting upon his legion's madness. And horus said sanguinius is the only primarch that could win vs Angron 1v1. I don't seem them making him better than horus rules wise but I think he will be on par. Really hope for a specially ability to allow him and his sang guard squad to assalt flyers but with reduced attacks. Not bothered if he's a monster or not just want some fun rules. But can Def see him ws and attacks with fairly high ini but to as high as fulgrim Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I'm not sure Angron is as strong as some sources suggest. Guilliman was able to hold him off at the same time as Lorgar in combat... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I'm not sure Angron is as strong as some sources suggest. Guilliman was able to hold him off at the same time as Lorgar in combat... ...or perhaps Guilliman isn't as bad as people are making him out to be. Guilliman does end up battered and bloody on the ground, so his accomplishment was really to delay defeat for a short while That said...Curze held off the Lion and Guilliman...but before that, the Lion had slashed open his throat in a 1 on 1 battle. Being able to hold off two other primarchs for a short span doesn't mean either one of them couldn't thrash you given some more time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Too many inconclusive and wildly inconsistant primarch fights. I think Sanguinius might benefit from the lack of Black Library attention, gives FW a clean slate to work from. Thats an important fact to remember, FW and BL don't always correspond. What we get may be vastly different to what we imagine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 And off-topic. This thread is to discuss Sangunius and his attribute/rules as we hop FW will give him. Not discuss which Primarch mauls whom the best. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Centurion Posted November 2, 2015 Author Share Posted November 2, 2015 Yeah... that would be interesting, but don't those get shut down? Sort of off topic, what do you think the actual model will look like? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Mainly because everyone in those threads becomes a three year old child and no actual useful discussion comes of it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Centurion Posted November 2, 2015 Author Share Posted November 2, 2015 Oh. That's too bad. I can think of some ways it could work though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionary Pallas Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Yeah... that would be interesting, but don't those get shut down? Sort of off topic, what do you think the actual model will look like? Majestic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Mainly because everyone in those threads becomes a three year old child and no actual useful discussion comes of it. This :cussing guy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I assume they'll model him in full flight with his wings spread, suspended over his base in some way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Centurion Posted November 2, 2015 Author Share Posted November 2, 2015 I was thinking he woulf be flying up, with his sword out, hitting something. And it could connect to a Ka'Bandha model. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I'd like him posed like this: http://image.17173.com/bbs/v1/2012/11/07/1352260533797.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 About to stab (or spear. I'm gonna keep pushing this ;)) Ka'Bandha through the chest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I'd like him posed like this: http://image.17173.com/bbs/v1/2012/11/07/1352260533797.jpg That's almost exactly what I had in mind too Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Too static for me and also too close to that AOS guy. I want huge motion. Mid-flight, stabbing, banking and screaming. Spear in one hand, Bloodletter head in the other! Edit: Make that Bloodthirster! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/5/#findComment-4213877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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