Black_out Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Horus is definitely a strong fighter, but no - he was never described as the greatest. He was always more of a negotiator/political/social genius. I still think that Guilliman and the Lion should be ranked highly because both received formal training in all forms of combat and warfare during their upbringing, more so than the other Primarchs. Thus far, as much as it pains me, Guilliman and his rules personify that perfectly. Hopefully the Lion will have a similar fate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4215839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Are we really debating by coming down to 'if their rules are better, they would be better'. What makes Horus good is his potential 7-10 attacks on the charge, and his sieze on a 4+ on top of the rest (2+/3++ etc). It doesn't matter if he has the claw or not, other than facing other Primarchs. He has a S10 Concussive attack. And regardless of how formally trained the Primarchs were, Horus had what, 20 years at the Emperor's side, learning from the Sigilite, Valdor Constantine amd the Big e himself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4215852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
drooling blood Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I still stand by the idea he'll be the loyalist equivalent to Horus pre-chaos. Agreed, that or slightly below him. Or slightly above him more like. Horus is Jack, pretty good at everything, master of none. Horus has never been portrayed anywhere as the best, apart from that one line. He swoops in and take the glory, yes. Hes stomped nothing, hes rallied no one, except possibly daemons now, pre heresy nope. Horus wanted to be fêted around.I wonder why? hes bald, who follows a bald guy? Ergo Horus is George. Sang never wanted to be on the main stage. He never wanted to be a king, or a puppet. You know what they say about those in power that want the job and hes got long, luxurios hair. Maybe thats why Horus was jealous. When the leader of khaos is worried about facing him, even with all his war gear, blah blah. atleast until Molech. I suspect Constantine is going to end up a deep cover khaos agent. Terror, give Sang a s d concussive he plummets from the sky Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4215868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Regardless, so long as he can put the fear of god into Ferrus, Perturabo, Dorn, and Russ I'll be happy (seeing as those are the legions I play against lol). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4215892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Are we really debating by coming down to 'if their rules are better, they would be better'. What makes Horus good is his potential 7-10 attacks on the charge, and his sieze on a 4+ on top of the rest (2+/3++ etc). It doesn't matter if he has the claw or not, other than facing other Primarchs. He has a S10 Concussive attack. And regardless of how formally trained the Primarchs were, Horus had what, 20 years at the Emperor's side, learning from the Sigilite, Valdor Constantine amd the Big e himself. The ship of reason in a sea of hysteria. I'm glad you're here :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4215894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 And regardless of how formally trained the Primarchs were, Horus had what, 20 years at the Emperor's side, learning from the Sigilite, Valdor Constantine amd the Big e himself. It's unlikely it was that long, considering the eighth Primarch found would only be ten to fifteen years after that. It's more likely five, perhaps ten, years alone, followed by decades beside Him when everyone else was sent off on their own. Which brings me to the point I wanted to make. Each Primarch spent decades at the least, nearly two centuries at the most, fighting a galactic war as the warrior-generals of superhuman Legions. It is unlikely that their training prior to their discoveries is going to have any real kind of impact in determining their Heresy-era capabilities. Yes, Guilliman and the Lion both had formalized combat training on their home worlds before discovery. This likely would have assisted them at first, at the very least giving them the right mindset, but after a hundred and fifty years fighting in the Great Crusade, those few years before would have no bearing if comparing that Primarch to another who had not received such early training. Their home worlds clearly influenced their ways of thinking during all that time, but the Great Crusade was the real cause for their combat prowess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4215925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Better stats than horus, but worse gear. Psyker, but limited. More maneuverable but less flexible in deployment. Similar level of army buffing, but a drawback if slain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Sanguinius is never described as being an outstanding general or tactician. All of his army buffs should focus on boosting morale and leadership, and also unlocking additional troop choices like some other Primarchs do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Sanguinius is never described as being an outstanding general or tactician. All of his army buffs should focus on boosting morale and leadership, and also unlocking additional troop choices like some other Primarchs do. Agreed, basically he should be like Angron, if Angron was beloved by his men and not half-crazed 90% of the time... But agreed, from what we've heard in novels and snippets of background, Sanguinius isn't a logistical master like Guilliman, or a thinker like Perturabo. He is a shining paragon, an example to follow, and a superbly inspirational leader. He is the line legionnaire's vision of what a Primarch should be; leading from the front, listening to the words of his subordinates, and slaying those who stand before him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sethdelta Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Sanguinius should easily be as good as Horus and cost suitably so. Definitely a 2+ 3++ and so on.. People who are saying that "Horus beat him with his bare hands"... keep in mind that he basically made himself supposedly Emperor powerful at that point time.. Sanguinius should be powerful and even just as powerful as Horus but all that being said it's completely up to the writers over at FW to hopefully do him justice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Carnelian Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Can't wait to see how he interfaces with the pre-Heresy Sanguinary Guard unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Sang - Khorne's 1st choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0nolith Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Agreed. Looking forward to that being a little better written by FW. Oh and Ka'Bandha/Sanguinius duel diorama please FW! This is SOOOOO what they need to do! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 That would be the single most epic HH diorama that FW would do, not to say the most expensive!! Barring FW doing Daemon Horus and the Emperor on a Vengeful Spirit bridge diorama with a dead Sanguinius at their feet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 That would be the single most epic HH diorama that FW would do, not to say the most expensive!! Barring FW doing Daemon Horus and the Emperor on a Vengeful Spirit bridge diorama with a dead Sanguinius at their feet. Expensive, yes. I'd buy it though, and I suspect that a lot of other people would too. I will mount mine on a plinth! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 As would I. Sanguinius and the siege of Terra is one of the most iconic images of the HH (along with his tragic death at the hands of his brother). Te bridge sene could be a 3 part base, and you coud put the duelling Sanguinius in place of the dead one, which would be cool. Like a prelude to the final act. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 As would I. Sanguinius and the siege of Terra is one of the most iconic images of the HH (along with his tragic death at the hands of his brother). Te bridge sene could be a 3 part base, and you coud put the duelling Sanguinius in place of the dead one, which would be cool. Like a prelude to the final act. I want one! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Me too, but only after Simon Egan has finished sculpting Russ :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimm Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Better stats than horus, but worse gear. Psyker, but limited. More maneuverable but less flexible in deployment. Similar level of army buffing, but a drawback if slain. I think this is spot on. He should have a higher ini than horus given his wings and agility but will only be a 2/4++ save to fit Pskyer debate rumbles on but all Bar Fulgrim show signs of limited powers, sang was famed for his "limited" foresight and horus often asks if he's seen things so I expect either lvl 2 div only or more likely will be jazzy Reroll rules like Lord commander smurf. Im sure he will have a ds rule that uses a blast marker for damage and won't scatter. His army buff should be very strong seeing as everyone even other legion's looked up to him. Flip side if he dies expect a dice role for each unit, black rage style. Be something like fnp+rage but must charge nearest non ba unit Inc allies. Great fun for 2v2 games! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I've mntioned this in a thread eons ago, but I would like to see: The Angel Cometh : Sanguinius and all units with the Jump infantry rule arrive at same time when held in reserve. Chose turn one, two or three for the arrival. When placing Sanguinius via deepstrike, place a 5" blast marker at the final location after scatter. All enemy models suffer a S10 hit ap2, vehicules are hit on side armour. Precognision : while Sanguinius is in play, the owning player can reroll a single die roll per turn. A reroll cannot be rerolled. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Me too, but only after Simon Egan has finished sculpting Russ :p Hopefully he has been to night school and learned how to do faces. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 For Sanguinius yes, for Russ..... Well he was never the best looking Primarch anyways :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I've mntioned this in a thread eons ago, but I would like to see: The Angel Cometh : Sanguinius and all units with the Jump infantry rule arrive at same time when held in reserve. Chose turn one, two or three for the arrival. When placing Sanguinius via deepstrike, place a 5" blast marker at the final location after scatter. All enemy models suffer a S10 hit ap2, vehicules are hit on side armour. Precognision : while Sanguinius is in play, the owning player can reroll a single die roll per turn. A reroll cannot be rerolled. This sounds pretty good to me. I don't really like Sanguinius as a psyker (Curze has precognition but isn't a psyker) but the reroll for precognition makes sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Yeah, I have never seen him as an active spyker. His visions come and go and are shrouded in mystery and omens. It's not somsthing he seems to control, so a passive ability like that seems to fit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Curze does't have precognition, that is Sevatar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315515-where-will-sanguinius-rank-among-the-primarchs/page/7/#findComment-4216772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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