SkimaskMohawk Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Yea, the 40k rule book does not, in fact, give you permission to do whatever you want; there's very clear limitations in both the BRB and the forgeworld books about building an army. If he's not following those limits then he's essentially cheating and being condescending about it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315592-age-of-darkness-and-40k/page/5/#findComment-4217998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I think your friend needs to have a little chat with Mr Dreadsock ;) Thee arbiter of all douchery Twinned with Squirrel sock, he wlll see the error of his ways Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315592-age-of-darkness-and-40k/page/5/#findComment-4218012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I think people have to realise that veteran Heresy fans and players are involved in 30k at least partly due to the rules and the more controlled meta. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315592-age-of-darkness-and-40k/page/5/#findComment-4218018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Ok so the original post here was because somebody who owns 30k models was running them in his primary detachment and then adding in a cult mechanicus formation from the 40k book as one army his argument is hes playing 40k and can do what he wants since thats what the core rulebook says my argument and the one that most agree with is no you cant just pick from both you play all out on one or the other. Picking and choosing what to use to get the best buff out of your army is dumb and it takes away from the thought of 30k being at a crusade level of millioms of troops facing down the galaxy unlike the 40k setting where its the imperium vs everyone including its own imperium The Cult Mechanicus were not present in 30K. The Mechanicum was the collective term for the various forces sent out by the Red Planet to colonise the galaxy prior to the Age of Strife; when the Age of Strife arrived and cut off each world from one another via Warp Storms, they often devolved into their own individual introverted and effectively "inbred" attitudes to the Omnissiah's teachings. When these worlds were liberated and/or reunited with the Imperium, some were declared "Hereteks" and excommunicated for their devolution and lack of orthodoxy in regards to the Omnissiah. Others had their modifications and changes made to their various units and any resultant STC's thought lost brought into the fold, and the technology passed around the rest of the Mechanicum forces, with the technology being used as a sign of favour and currency. Those in favour received better technology, those out of favour, didn't. When Horus fell to Chaos, and many Magi/Archmagi sided with him (for various reasons, whether it was simple curiosity in learning about forbidden arts of artificial intelligence, or just seeing the Emperor as an interloper and false representative of the Omnissiah or even some blasphemous imposter), those who stayed loyal to the Emperor (or rather, Imperium) became ever more paranoid and rigorously clamped down on "Hereteks" and those who strayed from the very thin line, rigorously hunting them down. They became less of a collective school and ideology into more of, well, a Cult and Theology; splitting mostly between the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Skitarii Legions. The Cult Mechanicus (oddly enough, can't actually find it in the Skitarii Dex) explicitly states that they are considered an army of the Imperium, and as such may ally with other armies noted as being armies noted as being an army of the Imperium to be considered battleforged, and hence receive the benefits of being battleforged. Within the most recent rules produced for the 30K ruleset, the Mechanicum Taghmata Army List, it explicitly states that they use (unless otherwise noted) the same rules as listed within the Core rulebook. The Loyalists or Crusade Army List for the Legiones Astartes (or any other 30k army for that purpose) is not listed as being an army of the Imperium (or any other faction as recognised by the Core 7th edition rulebook), and no other army has any sort of relationship with them. They're not even Come the Apocalypse, so cannot be interacted with in that manner. Unbound is still available of course, but if you wish to play "Battles in the Age of Darkness" (such as benefitting from Rites or specific Force Organization Charts or other Detachments), they are unavailable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315592-age-of-darkness-and-40k/page/5/#findComment-4218031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Ok so the original post here was because somebody who owns 30k models was running them in his primary detachment and then adding in a cult mechanicus formation from the 40k book as one army his argument is hes playing 40k and can do what he wants since thats what the core rulebook says my argument and the one that most agree with is no you cant just pick from both you play all out on one or the other. Picking and choosing what to use to get the best buff out of your army is dumb and it takes away from the thought of 30k being at a crusade level of millioms of troops facing down the galaxy unlike the 40k setting where its the imperium vs everyone including its own imperium What is really the problem here? People object to a Mechanicum army that brought along a detachment of Skitarii or some Kataphrons? Is it the arc and grav that is the problem? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315592-age-of-darkness-and-40k/page/5/#findComment-4218201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Atia- Iv no problem with 2 Knights in a 2k game, I have a pretty good all rounder to deal with that (you mentioned a good chunk of what I use, quad mortars, deredeo, las vindi, scorpius etc) if I knew he was playing that little list Id have countered with 10 autocannon guys with a seige Lord dude too Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315592-age-of-darkness-and-40k/page/5/#findComment-4218204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 @terminus pretty sure the OPs problem is the sense of entitlement his opponent displayed about breaking the rules Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315592-age-of-darkness-and-40k/page/5/#findComment-4218229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deekthegreat Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 So my friend and i keep hashing out the debate and he keeps going back to hes playing 40k amd the rules for 30k do not apply to 40k unless youre playing age of darkness. My argument is if youre using an army set from the expansion then you follow thise rules amd you dont mix the foc charts because well hey neither one exist in either book. He says theyd operate as battle brothers since theyre all mechanicum units and took a pic of the fluff chart in one of the gw books amd said see theyre all mechanicum so theyd be battle brothers and he says as somebody did post raw you can do what hes doing doesnt mean its right doesnt mean people wont have a sour taste in their mouth once you do bring 30k mechanicum into a 40k game and nobody has a clue on what youre saying because they havent ever glimpsed at the rules. It bothers me because well thats just plain bs to do if youre meeting somebody you play regularly and day hey im bringing my 30k army i can show you all the rules and stats are you cool with playing against it yes or no if not then i will just move everything to play in lie with 40k and call it good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315592-age-of-darkness-and-40k/page/5/#findComment-4221768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 To put it simply, your friend is full of Basically the main problem (for him) is that you ally faction with faction in 40k and none of the legions/Imperial army/mechanicum are factions in 30k. If he wants to say "the 30k restrictions don't apply to me, because I'm playing 40k" then by the same token neither do any of the rules he wants to use. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315592-age-of-darkness-and-40k/page/5/#findComment-4221792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Gotta Agree. And he's arguing with In-Book Fluff, not actual Rules. If that were the case then Angron should be able to Flip a Warhound Titan and Insta-Kill it. And Vulkan should be placed back on the table the instant you remove him. Besides MECHANICUM is NOT the same as ADEPTUS MECHANICUS. One is 30k and one is 40k. If he's arguing with the Fluff that they're the same faction he'd still be wrong. If he wants to use a 30k/40k force then he should ask you beforehand for your consent because EVEN FORGEWORLD have stated multiple times that both systems should not mix. +++ Just look at Tournaments. Theres a reason 30k and 40k are kept separate even if they aren't part of the main Circuit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315592-age-of-darkness-and-40k/page/5/#findComment-4221827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedarkprincesnun Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Generally id say the best way to.do it is either Both of you use the age of darkness force org OR You.both use the combined arms detachment Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315592-age-of-darkness-and-40k/page/5/#findComment-4224511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doghouse Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I'm pretty sure we will see more and more younger player getting into 30K now with the release of the plastic set. I don't want to be one of those 'old gits', but the steeper forgeworld price always kept the riffraff out and catered more to the mature fluff based player. Things are about to change Cheaper prices broadening the appeal and expanding the system beyond a select few that can afford it is a good thing. No in fact it is an AMAZING thing! I am one of the few players that dedicated countless hours if not years pouring through novels, old codexes, digging for the tiniest piece of information WAAAAAAAAAAAY before all the Forge World stuff came out. We never had it handed to us on a plate like people do now and despite all that hard work we put in when it was all stripped away and overwritten by "official" rules and models we welcomed it with open arms because it meant broadening the appeal and audience of something we were passionate about. Don't take this the wrong way mate as I am not directing this at you or anyone in particular, more of a general rant, but this elitest bull:cuss attitude "cool kids" thing REALLY winds me up. Anyone that takes the step to enter the Heresy/Great Crusade Era via these new plastics should be embraced as a fellow gamer not sneered by those that think they are better because they threw more money at forgeworld than the next guy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315592-age-of-darkness-and-40k/page/5/#findComment-4224688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Their MkIV swarms will be embraced by my Mauler Cannons. Walk towards the light! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315592-age-of-darkness-and-40k/page/5/#findComment-4224733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.