rendingon1+ Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 What did Dorn hoped to achieve by sending circa 40k (correct?) Fists to Istvaan? I mean sending 1/3 of his legion against 4 other "full strenght" legions looks quite irrational. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315737-retribution-fleet/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegriss Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 uh duh they are Imperial Fists so they are worth at least 5/6 dirty traitor marines at least. I mean look at the defence of terra... then again I might be a little biased but yeah Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315737-retribution-fleet/#findComment-4218502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkApostle7 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Because all the dirty little fists are scared of the primordal truth, so sscared in fact, he sent 1/3 of his legion as a 'sacrifice' to stop them going to nom on the empy so fast Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315737-retribution-fleet/#findComment-4218511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Wasn't the Retribution Fleet meant to relieve the beleaguered loyalists on Isstvan III? At that point Horus would not, in theory, have been dug in and would be engaged in ground operations meaning that the Fleet, with the Fists and the Imperial Army making planetfall or boarding actions, would be facing a partially defanged traitor fleet of (presumably) similar size. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315737-retribution-fleet/#findComment-4218515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 The retribution fleet was more of a politcal statement than anything else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315737-retribution-fleet/#findComment-4218531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 Wasn't the Retribution Fleet meant to relieve the beleaguered loyalists on Isstvan III? At that point Horus would not, in theory, have been dug in and would be engaged in ground operations meaning that the Fleet, with the Fists and the Imperial Army making planetfall or boarding actions, would be facing a partially defanged traitor fleet of (presumably) similar size. The only mention about Retribution Fleet I found so far is in the HH2 and it states that: The bulk of Dorn's own Imperial Fists would see to the defences of Terra and deal with disquieting reports of rebellion on Mars itself, though a strike fleet of the Imperial Fists had been despatched to investigate Garro's report, contact with them had been lost Well, sending 40000 guys and almost half of the fleet to "investigate" is rather poor explentation IMO. I think that Retribution Fleet (nomen omen) wasn't sent as a "rescue mision" for one major reson (my theory). Dorn didn't knew there would be any survivors. In "Flight of the Eisenstein" he only sees recording of orbital (virus) bombardment unleashed on Istvaan III and he assumed there would be no survivors. Besides even 40 000 IF wouldn't be a match for 3-4 legions no matter how unprepared (and being Led by Horus I think they wouldn't be suprised like some Orks). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315737-retribution-fleet/#findComment-4218534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Dorn states exactly what the Retribution Fleet was for: He glanced at his first captain. ‘Sigismund, my strong right arm, you will take direct command of the rest of our Legion and its war fleet. You will execute a return voyage to the Isstvan system under the auspice of a combat deployment and consider yourself to be entering hostile territory. The journey back will be difficult. Warp storms still rage in that sector and you will find the passage challenging. Go there, first captain, support our kinsmen loyal to the Emperor and learn what is occurring on those worlds.’ ‘If the Warmaster has turned his back on Terra, what are my orders?’ Sigismund asked, ashen-faced. Dorn’s countenance became rigid. ‘Tell him his brother Rogal will have him answer for it.’ The primarch nodded. ‘Understand my position. Despite all the evidence you bring me, I cannot be certain of this until I see it through the eyes of an Imperial Fist. I do not call you liars, brothers, but I must see all sides of this, consider every possibility.’ Investigate, and possibly deliver a message, not engage 4 Legions unsupported. 30-40,000 prepared, wary Space Marines is a serious, serious force, a completely different proposition from the surprised and betrayed elements of the Traitor Legions. They should have been able to get in and out of the system. At the same time, he was preparing a task force of what he believed to be 7 Loyal Legions. That was the force he intended to fight 4 Legions. If everything had gone according to plan, the Retribution Fleet would presumably have joined up with Loyalist Legions for the battle of Isstvan V. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315737-retribution-fleet/#findComment-4218677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsovitt Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Reconnaissance in force, go to the Isstvan system investigate the situation and make a decision based upon that. Better to send a larger taskforce which can potentially tip the balance in the loyalists favour than send a small force which cannot intervene in any meaningful way... What I never quite understood was the blind obedience to an order sent by Dorn, whom was unaware of the exact battle conditions at the time of the order which led to the loss of a large percentage of the taskforce... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315737-retribution-fleet/#findComment-4218682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 Many witty comments come to mind, most of them with word LOYAL. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315737-retribution-fleet/#findComment-4218782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydriatus Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Wasn't the Retribution Fleet meant to relieve the beleaguered loyalists on Isstvan III? At that point Horus would not, in theory, have been dug in and would be engaged in ground operations meaning that the Fleet, with the Fists and the Imperial Army making planetfall or boarding actions, would be facing a partially defanged traitor fleet of (presumably) similar size. The only mention about Retribution Fleet I found so far is in the HH2 and it states that: The bulk of Dorn's own Imperial Fists would see to the defences of Terra and deal with disquieting reports of rebellion on Mars itself, though a strike fleet of the Imperial Fists had been despatched to investigate Garro's report, contact with them had been lost Well, sending 40000 guys and almost half of the fleet to "investigate" is rather poor explentation IMO. I think that Retribution Fleet (nomen omen) wasn't sent as a "rescue mision" for one major reson (my theory). Dorn didn't knew there would be any survivors. In "Flight of the Eisenstein" he only sees recording of orbital (virus) bombardment unleashed on Istvaan III and he assumed there would be no survivors. Besides even 40 000 IF wouldn't be a match for 3-4 legions no matter how unprepared (and being Led by Horus I think they wouldn't be suprised like some Orks). The fate of the Retribution Fleet is explained in The Crimson Fist story, aka The Battle of Phall which is detailed in HH3. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315737-retribution-fleet/#findComment-4221165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 30,000 guys and 500 ships people! :D it was a third of the Legion and the Fleet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315737-retribution-fleet/#findComment-4221308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Dorn sacrificed a quarter of his legion to tell a Horus that the Imperial Fists were loyal? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315737-retribution-fleet/#findComment-4221603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydriatus Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 No, Dorn sent the fleet to investigate Istvaan III, and scout the system for the incoming Legions heading for Istvaan V - at least that's what I assume.Sadly, due to warp shenanigans, the Retribution fleet was ambushed at Phall by the Iron Warriors and damaged. Alexis Polux (The Crimson Fist) assumed command and conducted a masterful defence, one that apparnetly would have resulted in Perturabo's death, before a signal recalling the fleet to Terra came through.Chosing loyalty over wiping out the primarch of a traitor legion, Polux had the fleet break off to return to Terra as per their orders - and the Iron Warriors harassed the retreating Fists the whole way. ...yeah, the timeline is a bit muddy... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315737-retribution-fleet/#findComment-4221629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_F_H Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Perhaps he sent as much as could be spared? War isn't as simple as "send everything you've got to one place." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315737-retribution-fleet/#findComment-4221645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 No, Dorn sent the fleet to investigate Istvaan III, and scout the system for the incoming Legions heading for Istvaan V - at least that's what I assume. Sadly, due to warp shenanigans, the Retribution fleet was ambushed at Phall by the Iron Warriors and damaged. Alexis Polux (The Crimson Fist) assumed command and conducted a masterful defence, one that apparnetly would have resulted in Perturabo's death, before a signal recalling the fleet to Terra came through. Chosing loyalty over wiping out the primarch of a traitor legion, Polux had the fleet break off to return to Terra as per their orders - and the Iron Warriors harassed the retreating Fists the whole way. ...yeah, the timeline is a bit muddy... They were stuck for a year Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315737-retribution-fleet/#findComment-4221814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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