Help with Night Lords starter force from new boxed set.

[Wolfbiter]

Greetings, all! It's been a few years since I've posted at the B&C due to my daughter being born in 2012 and me taking a hiatus from playing 40k for a while during 6th edition. But a really good group at my local FLGS has convinced me to try 7th edition this year and it's been a lot of fun. Plus, the new "Betrayal at Calth" boxed set was exactly the motivation I needed to start the Heresy Night Lords army I've been thinking about for years, since I had already purchased and painted Sevatar and a Night Lords Contemptor last year just because I love the sheer awesomeness of the models.

I've pre-ordered a Calth boxed set from my local FLGS, and would like to ask for feedback/recommendations on three possible starting army builds I was playing around with based on the box set contents. I'm on a fairly tight budget, so I'm trying to stick with the contents of the box as much as possible for now to build a small core force to expand later. Our group is definitely narrative/casual as opposed to highly competitive, and most of our players will be starting with just the forces in the new boxed set, as opposed to Knights, Spartans, Typhons and other high-end Forge World vehicles.

Also, since I don't have the Red Books yet for Legiones Astartes armies, these are just general ideas based on what I've read online and I'm sure there will be other wargear options I'll want to add. Any suggestions for unit equipment are welcome.

Here's the three general ideas I was thinking of for my starting forces:

My first idea was large, footslogging Tactical Squads with extra CCW designed to outnumber enemy infantry to take advantage of "Talent For Murder" in close combat, and Apothecaries for additional survivability:

-15-man tactical squad with extra CCWs and Vexilla accompanied by Apothecary and Sevatar

-15 man tactical squad with extra CCWs, Vexilla, accompanied by Apothecary and Centurion/Consul character

-5-man Cataphractii Terminator Squad with Deep Strike

-Contemptor Dreadnought (possibly adding second Contemptor from boxed set)

The idea behind this force was to make durable Troops that could survive a bit of footslogging to get into assault, then outnumber enemy squads for the Night Lords special rule to take effect. Apothecaries give FNP for survivability, and Sev and Consul are designed to be heavy hitters/character killers in close combat. I also like the sheer amount of bolter fire these squads can put out due to Fury of the Legion, and I can give the squads Vexillas to improve morale.

The Terminators are held in reserve and can home in on Sevatar to provide support. The disadvantage I see is that without transport, this force is limited to footslogging, though the Apothecaries and high model count per squad is intended to offset that as much as possible.

My second idea was taking advantage of the "Terror Assault" rite of war:

-10 man Terror squad, Sgt with artificer armor and upgraded weapon

-10 man Terror squad, Sgt with artificer armor and upgraded weapon

-08 man Terror squad, Sgt with artificer armor and upgraded weapon, Apothecary, Sevatar (probably using Drop Pod)
-5-man Cataphractii Terminator Squad with Deep Strike
Contemptor Dreadnought

I love infiltrate, and this build strongly appeals to me for the ability to infiltrate and drop close to the enemy to attack right away. Again, the Termies would stay in reserve and home in on Sevatar as backup while the Dread provides heavy weapon fire. I like the description I've read of Vokite Weapons, and was thinking of perhaps giving each squad 2 Volkite Chargers, which could also be used as counts-as plasma guns in regular 40k games.

The disadvantages I see for this one are the body count for each squad is lower, which means less chance for a Talent For Murder and no Vexillas. I'd have to purchase a Drop Pod for Sevatar's squad or convert one I own, which isn't too bad. However, I'm limited to only 1 Heavy Support choice if I expand the army in the future.

Last idea would use Pride of the Legion

-Sevatar, apothecary

-10 man Veteran Squad

-10 man Veteran Squad

-8 man Veteran Squad with Rhino

-5 man Cataphractii Terminators with Deep Strike

-Contemptor Dreadnought

This one is a compromise between the first two ideas: I can still Outflank the Veterans, who also count as scoring Trooops, but can outfit them with heavier weapons like Heavy Bolters or Missile Launchers if needed. Sevatar and the apothecary can ride with the 8-man squad in the Rhino. Another advantage of this option is I already would have all the models I need except the Apothecary. Finally, I can be a bit more flexible when adding Heavy Support choices if I expand in the future, and the squads could be given weapons that swap easily for regular 40k games.

Thoughts and suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance!

[Lord Asvaldir]

Welcome back!

 

I like the first and second lists more than the third list. Problem with the third list is terror squads are just point for point better than veterans. Infiltrate, preffered enemy vs infantry, precision shots, fear..just so many extra rules. However, terror squads really need volkite, if you're not going to outfit the whole squad with volkite I'd say don't use them. Volkite lets them outnumber a squad once they've unleashed a round of shooting, then they can charge in and finish off the survivors. The exception is against vehicles, in that case veterans are definitely better since they can all grab melta bombs. 

 

First list is solid as well, I think large tac squads can work well with a character to support them, I'd definitely make your consul a chaplain to give a squad zealot. All your lists suffer from anti tank though, in order to remedy that I'd take both of your contemptors and give them double grav/fists. Dreadnought drop pods helps as well. 

[Atia]

I would choose list number two - terror squads are just cool :)

[Wolfbiter]

Thanks! After reading Lord Asvaldir and Lady Atia's suggestions, I discovered the very useful app Battlescribe and decided to try to split the difference and build a 1500 pt force that incorporates elements of my first two ideas. This also incorporates a Calth boxed set's contents with everything I own or have ordered so far except 1 Rhino and the Calth plastic contemptor:

 

HQ:

 

Legion Chaplain [Plasma Pistol, Power Armour, Power Weapon , Refractor Field, Trophies of Judgement]

 

Sevatar

 

TROOPS:

 

Legion Tactical Squad [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, additional Combat Blades]

-Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Lightning Claw, Melta Bombs]

 

Legion Tactical Squad [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, additional Combat Blades]

-Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist, Melta Bombs]

 

ELITES:

 

Apothecarion Detachment X2

 

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon [Heavy Bolter, Havoc Launcher]

 

5 Cataphractii Terminators [Combi-bolters, 3 Lightning Claws, Power Fist, Chainfist, Teleport Transponder]

 

10 Terror Squad [10 volkite chargers, Headsman with art. armor, lightning claw, melta bombs]

 

Concept: Each tactical squad gets an apothecary and HQ. Dread provides addional fire support for tac squads. Terror squad infiltrates enemy lines and goes CHOOM! ☺

 

Pros are that I can easily construct this list with what I have on hand, (I ordered some volkite and apothecaries fron FW today) and it includes most of what I want out of a Night Lords force (Sevatar, Termies, Terror Squad, Contemptor). Cons I can see are that it lacks transport and isnt fully optimized-My contemptor, for instance was built and painted before I was even sure I'd try for a full army so was armed with what I thought looked good.

 

I agree the force as is does lacks anti-tank, which I tried to offset with lots of melta bombs. If this looks like a reasonable starting force for casual play, I do plan to expand to 2000 with some heavy support and fast attack. (I was particularly interested in the Deredeo and Sicaran.)

 

Thoughts? Would this be an OK foundation for a casual environment starter army? Feedback most appreciated, and I will probably also work on an alternate 1500 Terror Assault list.

[Terminus]

10-man footslogging tacticas are a waste. I'd save the points from apothecaries and the close combat weapons, and buy them some Rhinos. If you footslog, the second list with Terror squads is a better bet (although you need a lot more than 2 volkites to really make it worthwhile).

 

Heavy bolter and havoc on the Contemptor? Really? You could just play 150 points down on your opponent, and the result would be the same.

[Wolfbiter]

@Terminus-Ouch, I did say above that the Dread was built for display originally, lol. Fortunately, the group I game with are definitely casual as opposed to competitive, and I'm not a tournament player, so hopefully it won't be too much of a handicap. Otherwise I can just laugh maniacally and say "BWAHAHAHA! Letting you defeat my suboptimal dread was just part of my diabolical plan!"...

 

...oh, wait, this isn't an Alpha Legion army. Never mind. ☺

 

But thanks for the suggestion about Rhinos, it's something I'll consider as I have a spare kit. I take it you prefer mobility over FNP in your armies? What kind of force do you play, and are you more competitive or casual?

 

I do LOVE the concept of terror assault armies, don't get me wrong I have two things holding me back on the 30-volkite idea: FW volkite kits prices add up VERY fast (I did order one, though). The other is that I don't know yet if I want to keep bolter squads for both the board game and 30k games. I'm really hoping the board game will be a good light intro to the 40k universe for new players, and it would be great to have an option that only requires 4-5 units and can be played in an hour or two. Of course, I have to wait for the boxed set and read the rules to see if that's the case.

 

I'm with the family on vacation this week, but have been playing sround with some Terror Assault ideas in Battlescribe in my spare time and will try to post them later.

[Terminus]

You can always physically throw it at the opponent to distract them, although that tactic is a lot less effective since GW abandoned pewter. :D

[Wolfbiter]

Hmm, terror assault lists are harder than I thought! Here's what I was able to come up with:

 

HQ: Sevatar

 

Elites:

1 apothecary, artificer armor OR volkite charger

1 Contemptor, HB and havoc launcher

5 Cataphractii Terminators, twin bolters, 2 lightning claws

 

Troops:

Terror squad, 10 bolters, artificer armor, melta bombs, chainglaive OR lightning claw

Terror squad, 10 bolters, artificer armor, melta bombs, chainglaive OR lightning claw

Terror squad x 8, 8 volkite chargers, artificer armor, melta bombs, power fist, Legion drop pod

 

Fast attack: Tarantula sentry battery with TL lascannon x 2

 

Sevatar and Apothecary ride in drop pod with Volkites, bolter squads infiltrate, everything else provides support to give the terror squads time to get into combat and terrorize. ☺

 

How would this work? I know most folks run with volkites only for their terror squads, but I found it very hard to fit in any anti-tank weapons unless I downgraded to bolters. Would this work at 1500? Having two bolter squads means I can also use them for the board game when needed.

 

Since I'm new to 30k, I wasn't sure if lightning claws or chainglaives are better for Executioners, or if the Apothecary could use artificer armor or an extra Volkite more. Again, thoughts welcome.

 

EDIT: I could upgrade to all Volkites for the terror squads, but I'd have to drop the apothecary and Tarantulas in favor of a single Rapier laser destroyer OR a single Tarantula laser and grav or melta gun on the Contemptor for anti-tank.

[Wolfbiter]

Didn't see feedback for the previous post, so here's the last two ideas I came up with while on vacation, then this evening it's off to pick up my boxed set!

 

List 1: Atramentar Veterans (1500)

 

ROW: Pride of the Legion

 

HQ: Sevatar

 

TROOPS:
10 Veterans, 2 missile launchers/flak/suspensors, Sgt. with artificer armor, power fist, Rhino

9 Veterans, Heavy bolter/suspensor, Sgt. with artificer armor, power fist, Rhino

5 Terminators, 2 Lightning Claws, 2 power fists, 1 chainfist, Teleportation Transponder

 

ELITES:

Contemptor Dreadnought, Graviton Gun, either Havoc+Heavy Bolter or Kheres
10 Terror Squad, 9 Volkite Chargers, Headsman with artificer armor, lightning claw, melta bombs

It lacks Terror Assault, but does have some anti-vehicle capability, can be expanded with less restrictions than Terror Assault, and the vet squads can be used for both BoC and 30k games.

List 2: Terror Assault

 

HQ: Sevatar

TROOPS:

10 Terror Squad, 10 boltguns, Headsman with artificer armor, lightning claw, melta bombs
10 Terror Squad, 10 boltguns, Headsman with artificer armor, lightning claw, melta bombs
08 Terror Squad, 7 volkite chargers, Headsman with artificer armor, power fist, melta bombs, drop pod.

ELITES:

1 x Apothecary
1 x Contemptor Dreadnought, Graviton Gun and Drop Pod, armed with HB+Havoc or Kheres
5 Terminators, 2 Lightning Claws, 2 Chainfists, 1 Power Fist, Teleportation Transponder

 

This list lacks in anti-tank, but has the cool Terror Assault rules and I like how it can close with the enemy very fast, with Terror Squads infiltrating or drop-podding Turn 1, and the Dread and Terminators coming in from reserves for support.

 

Either list can be expanded to 1750 by adding a Deredeo Dreadnought with autocannons and missiles as Heavy Support.

Any thoughts before I head to the FLGS tonight? Thanks.

[Slips]

I'm personally more inclined to go with List one.

 

If you have a Spare Drop Pod that your opponents would be fine with you using it as a Dreadclaw, you could have 5-10 naked Tac Vets with Melta Bombs (squad wide) and Tank Hunter USR (melta guns optional) ride in that dreadclaw to provide some serious Tank Busting capabilities.

 

Otherwise, what Veteran Tactics are you looking to use?

[Wolfbiter]

@Slipstreams: Thanks for your comments! I am new to 30k, so wasn't sure what Vet skills would work best for List 1. For the missile squad, I was considering either Tank Hunters to help against vehicles, or Outflank to use Sevatar's warlord trait to have them appear unexpectedly and put some damage into vehicle side armor. 

 

I was planning to have Sevatar ride with the second Vet squad in the Rhino and move fast to get into position to assault, so for that squad I was considering Furious Charge for extra assault capabilty, or possibly Sniper if I wanted to get shots in before moving into assault range.

 

I'm also open to suggestions on the Terminators' weapon loadout-would adding more combi-meltas or chainfists make either list more effective against vehicles?

[Slips]

You can rarely go wrong with Sniper. It even works with Flamers/Heavy Flamers for some nasty shenanigans, especially for DG and Sallies.

 

Otherwise, you're pretty spot on for the Vet Tactics. I'd still try to find a way to give at least the 9 Man Squad Sarge a Melta Bomb for when an Angry Dreadnought comes a-stompin'.

 

If you want assault-vets then I'd definitely opt for a Dreadclaw or Land Raider / other assault vehicle at that point. The Nostroman Chainglaive being S+1 Ap3 rending means that you can have an Ap2/3 Power Maul on the Charge depending on your rolls.

 

Search the AoD Subforums for Veteran Tactics or something, I've made a few...long...posts on them and they might help you out.