The Honoured- Betrayal at Calth

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

What I expect is a war. 

 

Right now, the loyalists are doing barely more than just surviving. Maybe thats enough, but if its believed that Horus takes so long getting to Terra the loyalists better start getting some solid victories. 

 

Right now its all "slaughter slaughter slaughter" of the loyalists.

 

The main strength of the loyalist war effort is the traitors self imploding nature.

 

WLK

[1ncarnadine]

What I expect is a war. 

 

Right now, the loyalists are doing barely more than just surviving. Maybe thats enough, but if its believed that Horus takes so long getting to Terra the loyalists better start getting some solid victories. 

 

Right now its all "slaughter slaughter slaughter" of the loyalists.

 

The main strength of the loyalist war effort is the traitors self imploding nature.

 

WLK

 

Fair enough.

 

But from the other end of the spectrum, I feel like if the Loyalists string up victories during the march to Terra it makes the Siege itself substantially less credible when we finally do get there. We already have quite a few situations that can be considered loyalist victories, too. Like the obvious big ones like the Dark Angels shattering the Night Lords, to the smaller stuff like the Alpha Legion losing massive amounts of its fleet during Alaxxes. 

 

It's tough to strike a satisfying balance.

[Allart01]

@Prot: Yes, it is confirmed ;)

 

Question about the ending of the book/s:

 

 

The Betrayal at Calth booklet hints at Sedd killing Aethon.

Is this confirmed in the novels?

I'm very curious about this.

It would be the first time the Imperium ends up loosing in a starter set.

 

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

What I expect is a war. 

 

Right now, the loyalists are doing barely more than just surviving. Maybe thats enough, but if its believed that Horus takes so long getting to Terra the loyalists better start getting some solid victories. 

 

Right now its all "slaughter slaughter slaughter" of the loyalists.

 

The main strength of the loyalist war effort is the traitors self imploding nature.

 

WLK

 

Fair enough.

 

But from the other end of the spectrum, I feel like if the Loyalists string up victories during the march to Terra it makes the Siege itself substantially less credible when we finally do get there. We already have quite a few situations that can be considered loyalist victories, too. Like the obvious big ones like the Dark Angels shattering the Night Lords, to the smaller stuff like the Alpha Legion losing massive amounts of its fleet during Alaxxes. 

 

It's tough to strike a satisfying balance.

 

 

It's tough to find a balance, sure.

 

but some inkling of Loyalist forces opposing Horus should occur.

 

right now, the Shattered Legions (Sal, IH and RG) are the only forces actively shown to be directly opposing Horus.

 

Guilliman and the Imperium Secudus is largely fortifying itself for an eventuality they dont KNOW is coming. The Ruinstorm does halt their advance to Terra...except for nearly everybody going through when plot demands. This ties up the BA, DA, and UM

 

The Fists fortify Terra, the Wolves rebuild after Prospero and the AL Ambush. Who the hell knows what the WS are doing right now. They quietly declared for Terra, but thats where their story stops.

 

For Loyalists its a bit dull.

 

WLK

[Izlude]

I have to say I like the Honoured so far. I am about 2/3 done with it so far. I was hesitant to get this mostly based on Rob Sanders last book (Cybernetica which I thought was god-aweful). It is no Betrayer or KNF, but pleasantly surprised. Without giving away spoilers, I really enjoy:

 

1. How freak'in tough cataphractii terminator armor is. Rob really does a good job conveying how tough this armor is...literally the one character with this armor is hit with everything and seems to make it via.

 

2. WB vs UM: One of my favorite things is reading about anything concerning the WB/WM hate feast. Initially Aethon comes across as a one-dimensional meathead, but as the book progresses, he seems more reflective and has some character to him.

 

3. I agree that the beginning with the race to safety was well done and my favorite part so far.

 

I do also agree the books were partly released to probably promote BaC, but so far I am digging the books. It does make painting the figure little more exciting. Has anyone read unburdened? How does it compare?

[Ganders]

I have to say I really disliked this book and just wanted to get to the end for completeness sake. The thing that ruined it for me was the invincibility of the terminator sergeant.

 

His armour joints were melting and fusing as the sun exploded behind him (he then picked up a blast door).

He was overwhelmed by a plié on of Word Bearers who wiped out his squad stabbing and shooting at close range but after thinking for a little he stood up and killed them all.

He was covered in Terminator 2 type frozen nitrogen which killed everyone else but his ruined suit protected him.

He fought hand to hand with a dreadnought which wiped out his squad (again). He ran away in his ruined armour.

He was hanging off a cliff in his ruined armour but managed to kill the guy above him then climb up.

There are only so may ways for the author to say his armour was a wreck.

 

I've never wanted any loyalist to just die as much as I have that guy. It killed all suspense.

 

I am hoping the Unburdened book is better as much as I didn't like the topic of Damnation of Pythos I liked the authors style.

 

Apologies for lack of spoilers but I think we should be able to discuss the points in the book in a thread about the book.

 

PS I also massively get annoyed at the amount of books and authors that describe a marine getting his head chopped off. With the design of most types of armour this would involve either a fancy swiping figure of eight motion or a sharp spoon.

[Half Goat]

I have to say I really disliked this book and just wanted to get to the end for completeness sake. The thing that ruined it for me was the invincibility of the terminator sergeant.

 

His armour joints were melting and fusing as the sun exploded behind him (he then picked up a blast door).

He was overwhelmed by a plié on of Word Bearers who wiped out his squad stabbing and shooting at close range but after thinking for a little he stood up and killed them all.

He was covered in Terminator 2 type frozen nitrogen which killed everyone else but his ruined suit protected him.

He fought hand to hand with a dreadnought which wiped out his squad (again). He ran away in his ruined armour.

He was hanging off a cliff in his ruined armour but managed to kill the guy above him then climb up.

There are only so may ways for the author to say his armour was a wreck.

 

I've never wanted any loyalist to just die as much as I have that guy. It killed all suspense.

 

I am hoping the Unburdened book is better as much as I didn't like the topic of Damnation of Pythos I liked the authors style.

 

Apologies for lack of spoilers but I think we should be able to discuss the points in the book in a thread about the book.

 

PS I also massively get annoyed at the amount of books and authors that describe a marine getting his head chopped off. With the design of most types of armour this would involve either a fancy swiping figure of eight motion or a sharp spoon.

Although I enjoyed the Honoured,  completely agree about the terminator segeant being invincible, it was a bit ridiculous. 

 

Three chapters into the Unburdened and I've had to give up. Annandales writing is simply dreadful,  and his timeline doesn't match the Honoured whatsoever it's like they didn't even consult on this. The Honoured had a sense of scale and time stretching out months until they reached the command nexus and it was already in Word Bearer hands.  In the Unburdened, the WB seemed to come across it almost instantly and the two sides of the story just didn't match up very well, partly this was due to the writing styles to be fair.

 

Another difference was how I perceived the WB in each short. In the Honoured, they seemed to control the darkness or at least have some connection with it, bleeding out to attack strategically like the trained killers that they are/have become. It showed their martial side which reminded me that they are Astartes. It's one of the only times I have genuinly liked their portrayal as they were for once a force to be reckoned with rather than the whiny broken hearted fanatics that they come across as in the Unburdened.

 

All in all,   the Honoured was an OK short story. I got a nice little glimpse of some Ultra and WB tactical thinking amidst the bolter porn which I usually just skim read through.  The Unburdened has sealed annandale as an author for me,  if Damnation of Pythos wasn't bad enough.  Please BL wipe him from the HH series! (along with Gav Thorpe).

[Izlude]

 

I have to say I really disliked this book and just wanted to get to the end for completeness sake. The thing that ruined it for me was the invincibility of the terminator sergeant.

 

His armour joints were melting and fusing as the sun exploded behind him (he then picked up a blast door).

He was overwhelmed by a plié on of Word Bearers who wiped out his squad stabbing and shooting at close range but after thinking for a little he stood up and killed them all.

He was covered in Terminator 2 type frozen nitrogen which killed everyone else but his ruined suit protected him.

He fought hand to hand with a dreadnought which wiped out his squad (again). He ran away in his ruined armour.

He was hanging off a cliff in his ruined armour but managed to kill the guy above him then climb up.

There are only so may ways for the author to say his armour was a wreck.

 

I've never wanted any loyalist to just die as much as I have that guy. It killed all suspense.

 

I am hoping the Unburdened book is better as much as I didn't like the topic of Damnation of Pythos I liked the authors style.

 

Apologies for lack of spoilers but I think we should be able to discuss the points in the book in a thread about the book.

 

PS I also massively get annoyed at the amount of books and authors that describe a marine getting his head chopped off. With the design of most types of armour this would involve either a fancy swiping figure of eight motion or a sharp spoon.

Although I enjoyed the Honoured,  completely agree about the terminator segeant being invincible, it was a bit ridiculous. 

 

Three chapters into the Unburdened and I've had to give up. Annandales writing is simply dreadful,  and his timeline doesn't match the Honoured whatsoever it's like they didn't even consult on this. The Honoured had a sense of scale and time stretching out months until they reached the command nexus and it was already in Word Bearer hands.  In the Unburdened, the WB seemed to come across it almost instantly and the two sides of the story just didn't match up very well, partly this was due to the writing styles to be fair.

 

Another difference was how I perceived the WB in each short. In the Honoured, they seemed to control the darkness or at least have some connection with it, bleeding out to attack strategically like the trained killers that they are/have become. It showed their martial side which reminded me that they are Astartes. It's one of the only times I have genuinly liked their portrayal as they were for once a force to be reckoned with rather than the whiny broken hearted fanatics that they come across as in the Unburdened.

 

All in all,   the Honoured was an OK short story. I got a nice little glimpse of some Ultra and WB tactical thinking amidst the bolter porn which I usually just skim read through.  The Unburdened has sealed annandale as an author for me,  if Damnation of Pythos wasn't bad enough.  Please BL wipe him from the HH series! (along with Gav Thorpe).

 

Enjoying the discussion :). 

 

Finally finished The Honoured: Yeah I guess Urcus (sp?) surviving the other stuff later on seems crazy although as far as Mary Sue goes, that award goes to Sharrowkyn. In terms of the writing, I wasn't expecting much based on Cybernetica but I actually enjoyed the read. It was fairly straight forward but not bad. Clearly not KNF or Betrayer.

 

Hoping Burdened is not as bad as it sounds. I was hoping it would coincide with The honoured and give more of WB perspective like that psycho dreadnaught, he sounds deft. As for the author, I think he is not bad. I agree I thought DofP was painful but only in that I am sort of sick of shattered legion stuff and the story was way too focused on a small group with no obvious effects elsewhere. With that being said the only reason I could get through it was the writing was actually solid. Don't get me wrong, he is no ABD, Dan, Wright, or French (my favorite 4) but he is definitely not the worse. I agree that Gav is god awful...his writing is horrible. Ben Counter is also abysmal (no pun intended:)

 

If anyone finishes The Unburdened, put your thought in. I am going to start it soon. 

[Petitioner's City]

I definitely liked The Unburdened more; I noticed the timeline differences (although I thought it was the other way around, the UM novella taking place over a short time, the WB novella over a much longer time). An interesting comparison are the stories in Mark of Calth, and we do now have more full understanding of the variety of psychologies and identities in both legions on Calth. One thing that surprised me was how the name 'Gal Vorbak' never came up in the WB novella (although two pseudo GBs end up being created) - and how uninitiated Kurtha Sedd felt. But despite this, it felt more of an examination of what it felt like to be in that situation... THe Honoured in comparison was rubbish; too much fighting, very dull characters. Really, Mark of Calth was overall much more interesting. And had a much better cover. 

 

http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah131/Dantioch/poster-mark-of-calth_zpsgx4qkbem.jpg

 

As a dreadnought, the Bull felt dull and uninteresting compared to the dreadnought characters of Betrayal, Ironclad or even Know No Fear. He just had cultists dance around him!

 

Also how, in these novellas, I wasn't sure how people would do this:

 

http://www.40kforums.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=14574&d=1362528140

 

If the sun is too strong, wouldn't Thiel and his friend be burned alive? Do they only go out at night? And Ventanus's Ultramarines in McNeil's and that Gal Vorbak in ADB's Mark of Calth stories - did they emerge and he fly at nighttime (even if in imagination), or was it day?

[Prot]

Well I loved the Theil short story but it does take place after the initial event of the Veridian sun igniting.

 

I would say there is room for the theory within sci-fi to suppose the initial explosion would be catastrophic to most life. And the fallout would be a burned atmosphere with very little radiation filtering.

 

I liked the honoured a lot. But am definitely in the same camp that the author went too far in demonstrating the dilapidated state of the termie armour but then went too far with having the armour repel a phenomenal chemical attack as well as incredible protection from astartes weapons.

 

Although he almost went as far as that with the word bearers dreadnought. Wow for a while I thought nothing was going to take it down. Don't these authors know easily these go down in game? Lol

 

That is a common theme that always bugs me about the table top game. These iconic units are just so horrible in the current state of the game.

 

I do feel the character of the ultramarines was very strong not only as individuals but as a contrast in astartes tactics. Here we have ultramarines still exercising doctrines and training from the top down in every military situation. In contrast the word bearers show signs of hubris and military decay for the trade off of personal glory for the rewards of chaos.

 

To me the differences were subtle but distinct.

 

I felt the ultramarines captain to be at eternal conflict at the betrayal. Here him and his Sargent are reunited at the cost of their home. And the cause of it still conflicts them. Where the Sargent sees only black and white the captain feels indebted to a traitor he owes a life debt to. I don't see the lack of character at all.

 

That said the ongoing hallway fighting seemed to be endless at times. I became more interested in the personality conflicts involved and less about the cave matches. Although I did find the supply teleportation device mechanism an interesting twist.

 

I personally have not enjoyed a lot of Annidale's stuff so am reluctant to burn 35 bucks on it. But I may do it and give him another go.

[Tymell]

Just finished The Honoured myself. Overall a definite "Eh..." Rob Sanders remains, for me, one of the weaker authors in the series. His writing in The Honoured is very rarely engaging, though I will say it had one or two good scenes, and the overall writing wasn't his worst (far better than Cybernetica for example). I don't have a problem with authors revisiting older events if they have something good to say, but this one really does feel like we've seen it all before. And by far the most glaring issue, as Ganders puts it below:

I have to say I really disliked this book and just wanted to get to the end for completeness sake. The thing that ruined it for me was the invincibility of the terminator sergeant.

His armour joints were melting and fusing as the sun exploded behind him (he then picked up a blast door).

He was overwhelmed by a plié on of Word Bearers who wiped out his squad stabbing and shooting at close range but after thinking for a little he stood up and killed them all.

He was covered in Terminator 2 type frozen nitrogen which killed everyone else but his ruined suit protected him.

He fought hand to hand with a dreadnought which wiped out his squad (again). He ran away in his ruined armour.

He was hanging off a cliff in his ruined armour but managed to kill the guy above him then climb up.

There are only so may ways for the author to say his armour was a wreck.

I've never wanted any loyalist to just die as much as I have that guy. It killed all suspense.

Gods, I'm glad I wasn't the only one who got this. Urcus is a definite contender for the biggest creator's pet in the series, he rivals Sharrowkyn. As above, there are a good five times in the book where he -should- have died, it got to the point where the only reason I wasn't yelling "Oh come on!" and shaking my head was because I was on public transport while reading it He was absolutely absurd.

5/10 from me.

[Prot]

I'm just grinding through the mirror novel the unburdened right now.

 

I find bad guys a little better when they are slightly likeable, you can find yourself almost pulling for them. Not this chaplain though. Totally unlikeable.

 

Also aside from repeating he has doubts, zero of his actions show that doubt. I liked in the honoured you could feel the captains conflict by doing things you know he shouldn't have. In honesty Aetheon's actions could have costed the Ultramarines the conflict in that book.

 

To me the only shining light in unburdened is that dread. His resurrection and un-ending rage are quite entertaining.

 

Also the action seems a little lacklustre in this one. In honoured I felt it was overwhelming and in this one the opposite.

 

It is weird to me the disconnect that happens on Monarcharia between these novels. I think this was a mistake. If you don't read unburdened you'll have zero idea why Kurtha Sed likes trolling Ultramarines.

 

I'm finally starting to enjoy it at the end largely because the dread has just lost it and is going nuts trying to flush the Ultramarines out of their command centre.

[Izlude]

I'm just grinding through the mirror novel the unburdened right now.

 

I find bad guys a little better when they are slightly likeable, you can find yourself almost pulling for them. Not this chaplain though. Totally unlikeable.

 

Also aside from repeating he has doubts, zero of his actions show that doubt. I liked in the honoured you could feel the captains conflict by doing things you know he shouldn't have. In honesty Aetheon's actions could have costed the Ultramarines the conflict in that book.

 

To me the only shining light in unburdened is that dread. His resurrection and un-ending rage are quite entertaining.

 

Also the action seems a little lacklustre in this one. In honoured I felt it was overwhelming and in this one the opposite.

 

It is weird to me the disconnect that happens on Monarcharia between these novels. I think this was a mistake. If you don't read unburdened you'll have zero idea why Kurtha Sed likes trolling Ultramarines.

 

I'm finally starting to enjoy it at the end largely because the dread has just lost it and is going nuts trying to flush the Ultramarines out of their command centre.

Grinding via The unburdened is an understatement. The honoured was at least easy to read via as it was just all action. I agree Sedd is totally a buzz kill and boring as hell even for a word bearer. Most of the other word bearers like erebus, kor, argel, etc are at least entertaining. Annadale tries too hard to make Sedd a complex character with his conflicts of worthiness, devotion to chaos, feeling betrayed etc. It just comes across as trite. 

 

The action is pretty weak. I agree the only enjoyable parts is with the raging bull. I have 40 pages left and it is painful