marvmoogy Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 HI all, I've been teetering on the 30k edge for a long time but the release of BaC and a pre-order later has plunged me well and truly into the 30k world! My plan is to built up a small (well, small by legion standards!) Ultramarines army. And I want to be able to play both 30k and 40k....let me explain. When my current projects are completed (who am I trying to kid...a project of marv's? Complete...?) I was planning on a small Ultramarine force based around the Skyhammer Annihilation force. Looking at the rules for the formation and seeing that Dev's get relentless, that means that Grav cannons & amps are the go to on this unit (for me at least!). So, I want to built a Legion force that contains 1 x 10 man Heavy Support Squad, essentially with 8 Grav cannons. This can then be split into the 2 5-man dev squads for the annihilation force. The problem with this is that I can't find any rules for Grav cannons in the 30k stuff I have nor can I find any 30k stylee weapons that suit. Am I best using the 40k grav cannons and they saying they are something like volkite culverins or do you know if there are plans for FW to release grav cannons to the legions astartes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deekthegreat Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Grav cannons and grav guns do not exist in 30k the closest thing to grav weapons are graviton guns. Purchase the red crusade army list books to find out weapon profiles Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4219503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Yeah, 40k Grav Doesnt exist (except for mechanicum Graviton Imploders) and were kinda better for it. You also cant give units Drop Pod transports willy nilly, it takes specific circumstances to permit that. Id take a gander at the 1d4chan 30k article. Gives a nice, breif breakdown of the main differences between 30 and 40k Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4219507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 We don't want no grav here unless your an iron hand you see Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4219511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvmoogy Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Sorry guys - don't think I made myself clear. The force I am planning will be a crossover. The 'core' of the army will be used in both (for example the BaC Termie Captain will be a Captain, the Dark Apostle will be a Chaplain ,Tactical Squads will be Tactical Squads) but there will be specific 30k units included as well. I'm thinking of a melta tactical support squad as an example. What I was curious about was the Grav side of things and if they did exist (I have the red rule books but couldn't find what I was after - graviton confused me!) or if they don't, does the rumour mill have anything about Grav coming along? I'm still very early days into this project and will be sitting down with the books over the next week or so planning things out. Cheers, Marv Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4219514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedmeister Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 No grav amp wackiness in 30k chap. Also, heavy support squads all have to be armed the same with the exception of the sergeant.If you're dead set on using drop pods, then you'll need to be running the orbital assault right of war which has its own pluses and minuses. As mentioned above the 1d4 article is good and make sure you get the LACAL red book as the legions are very different to the chapters and army construction you are used to with 40k. Edit; Didn't see your response above until after I posted... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4219517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Heres the Article: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k) If you want to use 40k Grav in 30k its going to be Volkite. Its the only real parallel since things like: HB, HF, Autocannon, Multimeltas, Plasma Cannon, Lascannons and Missile Launchers still exist. Also, yes as Zed Said: Unless you consciously swap out the HSS Sarge's weapon with a CS/BP, then the WHOLE squad MUST be equipped with the Same Weapon. No ablative wounds. So a 10 Man Squad MUST have 10 Heavy Weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4219527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedmeister Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Sorry guys - don't think I made myself clear. The force I am planning will be a crossover. The 'core' of the army will be used in both (for example the BaC Termie Captain will be a Captain, the Dark Apostle will be a Chaplain ,Tactical Squads will be Tactical Squads) but there will be specific 30k units included as well. I'm thinking of a melta tactical support squad as an example. What I was curious about was the Grav side of things and if they did exist (I have the red rule books but couldn't find what I was after - graviton confused me!) or if they don't, does the rumour mill have anything about Grav coming along? I'm still very early days into this project and will be sitting down with the books over the next week or so planning things out. Cheers, Marv None of us can say for certain that we know FW's plans. Grav amps may appear. However, bear in mind, the bulk of the crusade list is now set. What we'll probably see is new war machines and legion specific gear. If you like Grav, then Graviton Guns and Graviton Cannons are the closest. Graviton guns are rare and only appear generally in breacher squads and only then its limited to 1 per 5. Iron Hands can take a Tacitcal Support Squad armed all with Gravitons but they need to use their specific rite of war to take them. Graviton Cannons are only available on Rapier carriages. They're expensive but worth it as they're reliable against the tougher vehicles (Flare-shielded Spartans for one) Melta is hit or miss in 30k mainly because of the presence of Armoured Ceramite (vehicles ignore the melta rule). Most tougher vehicles will have it and if you show up against regular opponents with a Tactical Support Squad equipped with Meltaguns, expect them to Ceramite up most of their expensive vehicles! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4219546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Heres the Article: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k) If you want to use 40k Grav in 30k its going to be Volkite. Its the only real parallel since things like: HB, HF, Autocannon, Multimeltas, Plasma Cannon, Lascannons and Missile Launchers still exist. Also, yes as Zed Said: Unless you consciously swap out the HSS Sarge's weapon with a CS/BP, then the WHOLE squad MUST be equipped with the Same Weapon. No ablative wounds. So a 10 Man Squad MUST have 10 Heavy Weapons. i actually like the idea to use volkite rules to represent heavy graviton guns (ideal for iron hands f.e.!) in 30k^^ but getting 5+ grav cannons* won't be that easy ^.^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4219552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedmeister Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 but getting 5+ graviton guns won't be that easy ^.^ Do you mean the rarity of buying them, because there's this set. If you already know that and are talking about something else, tell me to clear off! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4219555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 We don't want no grav here unless your an iron hand you see We have volkites instead much more efficient at irradication Just like that a new word enters my hall of fame of neologisms Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4219640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 but getting 5+ graviton guns won't be that easy ^.^ Do you mean the rarity of buying them, because there's this set. If you already know that and are talking about something else, tell me to clear off! i meant cannons lol xD you know, the things that officially doesn't exist yet (hence why i would use them f.e. for IH's as trial tech) and afaik you get only 2 of each in a plastic devastator box^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4219698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedmeister Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 i meant cannons lol xD you know, the things that officially doesn't exist yet (hence why i would use them f.e. for IH's as trial tech) and afaik you get only 2 of each in a plastic devastator box^^ Ah right, sorry. I'll clear off now... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4219701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsovitt Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Graviton Guns can also be taken on Land Speeders in 30k - saw a conversion somewhere on B&C where they'd used Centurion Grav Amp on a land speeder looked superb... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4220520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvmoogy Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 I think I'll go down the Volkite route - I love the look of those and it won't be too much of a leap of imagination to have them 'counts as' grav cannons! In other news I've been reading up on the 'big red book'. Whoever it was who said there was a lot to take in and more than a few differences wasn't lying!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4220660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I love counts as models that are inventive, but I downright hate proxies such as calling a clear weapon something it's not. 40k and 30k even more so are visual games. If you're holding a Melta gun, it's a Melta gun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4220719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvmoogy Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 Ishagu - so in your opinion, what camp does a MkIV marine holding a volkite culverin in a 40k devastator squad come in - inventive counts as or hateful proxy? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4220744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I love counts as models that are inventive, but I downright hate proxies such as calling a clear weapon something it's not. 40k and 30k even more so are visual games. If you're holding a Melta gun, it's a Melta gun. problem is - if you want to have a specific weapon (like a graviton cannon for your heavy support squads) that doesn't exist yet :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4220752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Ishagu - so in your opinion, what camp does a MkIV marine holding a volkite culverin in a 40k devastator squad come in - inventive counts as or hateful proxy? Not quite hateful but definitely a proxy. I'd simply have one of each squads... As for models that don't exist yet... That's an annoying quirk of playing the Heresy :-( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4220794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Ishagu - so in your opinion, what camp does a MkIV marine holding a volkite culverin in a 40k devastator squad come in - inventive counts as or hateful proxy? Not quite hateful but definitely a proxy. I'd simply have one of each squads... As for models that don't exist yet... That's an annoying quirk of playing the Heresy :-( Well, I still think that part of the magic of the GC was that they actually had more and better stuff than 40k marines - never liked the idea of developement after the HH (besides field conversions like the LR Ares) .... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4220798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvmoogy Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 I guess that's the great thing about our hobby...each to their own and it is normally accepted even if not to your tastes. But your comment does bring up the main problem with our hobby.... every plan just adds £££ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4220813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I guess that's the great thing about our hobby...each to their own and it is normally accepted even if not to your tastes. But your comment does bring up the main problem with our hobby.... every plan just adds £££ Oh I completely agree, the hobby is incredibly expensive. I come across as a hobby snob at times but I'm all to aware of how difficult it is to collect all the models we like! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315792-grav-amps-and-cannons-in-30k-new-legion-bac-content/#findComment-4220884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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